Camille Dan is the Shining Light Mother of Aaron, who transitioned into spirit at an early age.
Camille and I discuss what Aaron was like before he passed. But, we really focus on her surprising relationship with Aaron since then. In a short span of time, Camille has written a book, come out with the second edition of that book, and put together an incredible anthology in a third book. Camille has regular communication with Aaron and credits him for the incredible work she is doing to help others heal. I am honored to be one of the authors featured in Gathering At The Doorway.
Details: Camille Dan is the mother of four, her eldest son Aaron transitioned to his afterlife in September 2019. She has prior experience as a critical care nurse and a medical consultant for feature films and tv. She is currently a private investment manager, and the self-published author of “Aaron’s Energy: An Unexpected Journey Through Grief and the Afterlife With My Brilliant Son” 1st and 2nd Editions, and the newly released book, “Gathering at the Doorway: An Anthology of Signs, Visits, and Messages from the Afterlife”. All earnings from her book sales go to mental health and addiction programs, bereavement support services, afterlife communication research, youth, and young adult social development programs, Helping Parents Heal, Forever Family Foundation, and more. She is also published in a chapter of “Chicken Soup for the Soul: Grieving, Loss, and Healing” by Amy Newmark, and “The Beauty of a Grieving Mother” by Elly Sheykhet. Camille has appeared on radio, podcasts, and YouTube shows around the world.
Brian Smith 0:01
Now that you’re here at Grief 2 Growth, I’d like to ask you to do three things. The first thing is to make sure that you like click Notifications, and subscribe to make sure you get updates for my YouTube channel. Also, if you’d like to support me financially, you can support me through my tip jar at grief to growth.com. That’s grief the number two growth.com/tip jar or look for tip jar at the very top of the page or buy me a coffee at the very bottom of the page, you can make a small financial contribution. The third thing I’d like to ask is to make sure you share this with a friend through all your social media, Facebook, Instagram, whatever. Thanks for being here. Close your eyes and imagine what are the things in life that causes the greatest pain, the things that bring us grief, or challenges, challenges designed to help us grow to ultimately become what we were always meant to be. We feel like we’ve been buried. But what if like a seed we’ve been planted and having been planted would grow to become a mighty tree. Now, open your eyes. Open your eyes to this way of viewing life. Come with me as we explore your true infinite, eternal nature. This is grief to growth and I am your host Brian Smith everybody this is Brian back with another episode of grief to growth and today I’ve got with me Camille Dan. Camille is the mother of four her eldest son Aaron transition knows Afterlight afterlife is a timber 2019. Camille’s prior experiences as a critical care nurse and a medical consultant for feature films and TV. She’s currently a private investment manager. And she’s a self published self published author of Aaron’s energy and unexpected journey through grief in the afterlife, with my brilliant son, first and second editions. And she’s the author of the newly released book gathering at the doorway and then theology of signs, visits and messages from the afterlife. And my story of Shane is actually featured in that book. All the earnings from Camille’s book sales go to mental health and addiction programs, Bereavement Support Services, afterlife, communication research, youth and young adults social development programs, helping parents heal, Forever Family Foundation and more. So she gives all this back to these very worthy charities. She’s also published a chapter of Chicken Soup for the Soul, grieving a loss of healing by Amy Newmark and the beauty of a grieving mother by Elisha gcap. cycad, I’m not sure to pronounce her name, Camille has appeared on radio, podcasts and YouTube shows around the world. And today, she joins me
Camille Dan 2:40
now Hi, Brian, thank you for having me. It’s a real honor to be on your show.
Brian Smith 2:46
I mean, I’m really glad to have you here. We’ve known each other for a little while now we get to know each other a little better through the gathering at the doorway project that you work on, which we’ll, we’ll get to talk about later. But whenever I have someone on who’s a parent of a child, and spirit, I always like to start off by talking let you talk about your son. So tell me about Aaron.
Camille Dan 3:07
Well, Aaron, truly is a brilliant person. And right from birth, I could see he was he was unique, and ahead of expectations. So in my first book, I refer to Aaron as my brilliant son, because of his brilliance in life and also brilliance as a shining light from his Afterlight life. He’s a brilliant light for me and continues to be I always found, right from an early age that Aaron was teaching me. I, you know, as a parent, he’s my firstborn and, and as a parent, you think you’re going to teach everything to your child, you don’t realize how much they actually teach you about life. You know, and love. And from a very early age, Aaron was doing things and saying things that, you know, you would expect a much older child, even even an old person to come out with, he was charitable he, he gave some coins that fell out of my pocket. He was under three years old and he he picked them up and took them to school and gave them to his classmates. And I found that out when the principal called and I thought, Oh no, a kid choked on one of the coins. And she said no, you won’t believe Aaron gave each of his classmates a coin and told them to put it in the charity box. He was under three years old and just just his compassion for others his his kind heart and generosity which just was evident from that early age and, and continued and still continues, and it’s really Aaron who guided me to write these books and to give the money from the sales of the books to charities, and those charities are in his memory and in his honor and charities that he I believe he would have given to, you know, and and he’s, he’s guiding me to do it for him. Yeah.
Brian Smith 5:29
Tell me more about his life when he was here.
Camille Dan 5:32
So Aaron, he, he was very creative. He was a great older brother, he, he really doted on his younger siblings, I have three others, two boys and a girl. And he, he was very involved in their lives, he took it upon himself the responsibility upon himself as their big brother to guide them. And to make sure they were all okay. In his teens, Aaron struggled with. He’s had a very sensitive soul. And he struggled a lot. He had so much empathy for others and sympathy. And he took on a lot, I think, more than he could handle at that age. And he did get involved after my his father and I divorced, he did get involved with some drugs, and he went through some struggles with addiction. He got through, he went through a rehab program and outpatient program, which he researched, he wanted to make sure that he did what he felt was best for him, and, and he would have the best outcome. And so his research led him to an outpatient rehab program, which he went through and, and he was doing extremely well. Once he got through that program, he got his degree in business management and administration. And he became an Investment Analyst. And he did extremely well at that. You know, he consulted me on a lot of that, because of my my business experience. And, you know, he just was was shining and happy and himself, you could see he, his face lit up, and he just was back to Himself. And then one evening, we went out for dinner to our favorite pizza place. And Aaron was considering buying a house to renovate. He liked the idea of investing in real estate property, and upgrading it. So we had a whole discussion on that, and you know, who he could consult. And three days later, he was gone. And that was our last conversation. We exchanged some text messages. He told me he was having trouble sleeping. He told me he took a sleeping pill. And Aaron knew a lot about pills and things because of his prior experience with addiction. And we had had many conversations about, you know, pills and drugs and things. And he knew, I thought he knew very well, what he was doing. I also knew that he had a prescription for sleeping pills, because I had seen them. So my assumption was he took one of his sleeping pills. And when, you know, there’s still a police investigation going on with his accident. He actually died in a fall. It was there was fentanyl involved. And there’s still an investigation going on about it. So I don’t have a lot of details on the actual incident. The physical incident of Aaron’s transition, but since then, Aaron has described to me in detail, his actual transition, and that I write about in in my books as well.
Brian Smith 9:30
Wow. Wow. So when when was this an errand pass?
Camille Dan 9:34
September 22. Of 2019.
Brian Smith 9:38
Okay, so yeah, so very recently, yeah.
Camille Dan 9:41
Yeah, very recently. So it’s surprising and a lot of people find it surprising that not only wrote one book, but I’ve written two books about it. And I have to say, Aaron Wright is writing these books. This is all my writing is all channeled from Aaron. I’m not I’ve never written a book before in my life. I had no idea what I was doing. All of this is his guidance. Oh, yeah. Yeah,
Brian Smith 10:12
that’s, that’s incredible. And I can see why you titled The book Aaron’s energy because it does take a lot of energy to put out one book and let alone two books when you’re when you’re in grief. And I, and I know this anthology that you just recently released that we’re bringing, we’re going to talk more about later. I’ve seen how much energy you put into that. And it’s just, it’s amazing. And people don’t realize how much it takes behind the scenes, especially for you bringing this whole thing together. So it’s clear that Aaron is driving you, I think and guiding you and lifting you up, I would say,
Camille Dan 10:45
Oh, absolutely, he started right from the beginning of his afterlife. So, you know, we talk about the end of life, the end of life is the beginning of the afterlife. And right away, I received a written note from a friend of mine who claimed to have channeled Erin. And she presented the note she is She also contributed a chapter to gathering at the doorway. She presented me the note very soon after Aaron’s funeral. And it was there were there were things in that note, she couldn’t have known. And she and I have she and I met when Aaron was a baby, a newborn. And she had also, she was expecting her newborn son. So we’ve known each other that long, Aaron was 31 at the time of his transition. And her name is Arlene and she, you know, she’s been a close friend of mine for years. And, you know, as a skeptic, I used to listen to all of her talk about, you know, mediumship and, and contact with the afterlife thinking, well, that’s really nice, if that is helpful for her. But of course, I didn’t really absorb a lot of it, because of my background and nursing and so forth. I was more of a skeptic, even though I had experience with patients who had NDAs, near death experiences and the stuff they reported to me was well beyond what you know, anyone could imagine physically, yet, you know, as a as a nurse, and many medical people kind of boil it all down to a phenomenon of the brain. Although that’s many. Since then, much more has been discovered about consciousness. But back to the note from our lien. The next day after reading this note with information she couldn’t have known. We had to meet with the detectives. One of the detectives said something that was literally word for word in our liens note, word for word. Of course, I forget everything else. He said. Yeah, you know. So that was really the the spark for me to begin opening my mind to the possibility that this did come from Aaron. And then very soon after that on a drive up north, up in up in Canada, near where I live. In the fall, we have these beautiful fall colors. On the trees, the leaves are red and orange and gold and beautiful in the fall. And I was marveling at them, you know, which I always do. When we go on these road trips up here. I love looking at the leaves in the fall. As soon as I realized how beautiful this site was, I got hit with a weight tidal wave of grief that Aaron is never going to see this again.
And as soon as I had that thought I heard Aaron say to me as if he was a passenger in the car. It wasn’t telepathic. I heard it with my ears. Him say I do see it, mom. I see the colors. But they don’t look the same way they look to you. I see the energy that the leaves are emitting. I can’t describe the colors that I’m seeing to you. Wow, wow. That was my first instance of hearing him speak to me in his voice and then it just started becoming a regular thing. And that’s been since October of 2019. And I at the time I also had started reading books, books like yours, you and many other authors and I found books to be such a comfort. You know, this was this was a realm I had never expected to, to experience and we all, especially as parents, who lose children, we don’t expect that’s going to happen. And so why why would we look into it and, and look at it, you know, before it happens. So once it did happen to me like you I wanted to read more and more, and I wanted to learn more and more. And I and one author, more than one author, I apologize, recommended writing a journal of my experiences and my feelings. Well, it didn’t take long before Aaron’s messages overtook my journal. And then I started to realize that this is something I shouldn’t be keeping all to myself. Originally, it was just for my own therapy, you know, to write, but these messages started to seem that they might be helpful for other people. And I was also talking to other people about them and sharing them with other people. And as soon as I would, wouldn’t they want to share an experience similar experience with me? So I just thought, Okay, this seems like this is going in the direction of publishing this. So I decided to do that I decided, okay, I’ll publish my grief journal, into a book. Well, I thought, you know, that was a big idea. Now, how do I do it? Right. So I googled it. The next thing I knew, I self published my book on on Amazon KDP. And, and that was my first book, Aaron zenergy. I can show you. Can I show it to you? Absolutely. However, this is the cover of my first book, Aaron’s energy. And, you know, I mean, it says right in the beginning of my book, if one other person reads this, and it helps them, I’ll feel like it was it was worth doing. Well, more than one other person read it. And next thing I knew helping parents heal was interested in, in the book, and I was able to publish a second edition with an update with some more messages for Marin and, and a longer Rick, recommended reading list. And I published the second edition of Aaron’s energy, which this is the cover.
Brian Smith 17:42
Yeah, that’s nice.
Camille Dan 17:44
Yes, thank you. And and that one is on Amazon and Amazon smile for helping parents heal it. And thank you for for mentioning how nice the covers of the books are. Aaron’s Brother Jonathan, did the cover art for all of my books and in memory and in honor of his brother?
Brian Smith 18:07
Oh, wow. It’s awesome. Yeah. And they’re, they’re great. They’re great covers. You know, as you were going through your story, I think it’s interesting. You said, you know, you’re a nurse, a critical care nurse. And but you didn’t really, I guess, think much or believed much about the afterlife. And I know in medical profession, people are not trained to think about the afterlife. In fact, it’s kind of like drummed out of you. I know a lot of doctors don’t, but a lot of nurses actually do, because they’re the ones around the dying. So I’m curious as to what you thought about these in the ease and things when people told you about them?
Camille Dan 18:42
Yeah, so that’s a really good point that a lot of medical aid, we are not trained about the afterlife. And especially in critical care. That’s the last thing you’re thinking about. You’re thinking about saving your patient, and that’s what your entire life focused on. So and that was me, you know, I’m gonna save this person, whether they like it or not. And yeah, and funny enough, some of them didn’t really like it. And that’s what they would report. They didn’t want to come back. They liked it better, where they were outside of their bodies, watching what was going on and telling us what happened. Like, how could they possibly know and I would inevitably explained it away. I would listen to it. I did. It’s not like I dismissed it. It was that yeah, I’m sure this they believe this happened and their brain told them that it did. But, you know, I wouldn’t think of it as necessarily something they they really experienced in what my sense of reality was. Of course, my sense of reality has expanded way further since.
Brian Smith 19:58
So I Think I want to you know, the thing is, I think we don’t. We’re all like that, until something happens to us. We just kind of, you know, we might hear about an indie and like, Oh, those are cute stories. Or yeah, I’m sure that they believe that happens, even though there’s sometimes pretty incredible things that we can’t explain. I’m reading Dr. Grace’s book right now after where he talks about all these in the ease and you know, but we we think, Well, I can’t I can’t explain that from my paradigm from my sense of reality. So I’m just going to let it go. So So what was your reaction when you audibly heard Aaron’s voice? Because I also want to express to people that’s very rare thing. You know, a lot of us we communicate with our children. I hear my daughter, but I’ve never heard her audibly.
Camille Dan 20:45
Yeah, it was, first of all, I, of course, was stricken by it. You know, here, I was facing a tidal wave of grief coming at me, and then instantly stricken and frozen by this voice, and I looked around the car, and nobody else heard it. So my next instinct was, don’t say anything. Everyone’s going to think I’ve gone crazy. And I think I have to Sure, how could that possibly be I actually, this was not inside my head. This came from outside of my head. So now I’m thinking, Oh, that I’m hallucinating. You know? Well, little by little Aaron was able to get through my sixth goal. And combine messages of his with signs. And the timing of those signs. I just couldn’t, couldn’t explain that away was, you know, what are the odds that Aaron would tell me something, right at this moment that this, this sign occurred. So I started to learn about synchronicities, and the synchronicities with air and signs and messages and connect the dots. And I realized too, over time, he was he was slow, dripping me with information and one bit of information would build on the next. And so it started to, you know, I don’t want to say be a fun thing to, you know, but I’ve really started to look forward to his messages and his signs and anticipate them. And over time, I started to learn more and more, what he was trying to relate to me, which is, he’s fine. He’s in he’s in his afterlife. It’s amazing. If he can’t explain it fully, to me what, what his experience is there, but he’s trying to let me know as much as he can possibly let me know about it. So that I’m fine. Because the more fine I feel, the more readily his energy and mind can, can connect and can maintain that connection.
Brian Smith 23:09
Yeah, I think that’s a very good, very good point for people to understand, is that there’s seems to be, and we use analogies, because we don’t know how it really is. So we say that they’re at a higher vibration that we are and that we were at a lower vibration, that density of energy is harder, I guess, for them to penetrate, I think is a good analogy to use. So if we can lighten I right, raishin we can make that connection more easily, which is something that’s very difficult to do, you know, in early grief, but there are also people that seem to be really, really good communicators from the other side. And we don’t know, again, we don’t know why. But there are people like Aaron that just seemed to just really be able to have an energy that gets through pretty easily.
Camille Dan 23:50
Yeah, and you know, it’s funny, because I, he doesn’t really explain that part of it to me, like, Why is his? Why does his energy get through to me so, so readily and so easily compared to some people who feel that, that they’re not hearing from their loved ones are getting any signs? He, he kind of, again, this is likely something that he can’t describe to me because if he could, I’m sure he would. It’s just way beyond what I would be able to understand. And he tells me that to mom, you’ll never get this. You know, I’ll tell you know, it’ll explain as much as he can. He talks a lot about energy and that’s the reason. My first book is called Aaron’s energy. He talks about physics and metaphysics, he talks about energy compatibility and incompatibility and how certain energies are more compatible, so certain energy is drawn On towards certain energy. You talk about vibration he talks about, he talks about that more in he uses the word moving, it’s moving it’s it’s it moving at varying rates, he says, and therefore certain energy is more compatible to meld with, he talks about how he, our loved ones can check in on us. He talks about how animals are easier and more compatible energy for spirit energy, because their energy is less complicated. They operate on instincts, they don’t think and you know, have the same level of or vibrational level that we have, it’s easier to get through their energy. And he says their eyes are our eyes, their ears, our ears, he says they like birds, because birds can get to places easier. So a bird that has less obstructing it from if they want to come and check on us, oh, there’s always a bird nearby. And that bird can get here fast, and even drop a feather, you know, to let us know that we’re there. And so he talks a lot about he talks about also how young children have less complicated, complex energy that’s easier to meld with an eat and they can they can connect easier with as well. So he describes to me how that’s why young children are more in touch with the other side. And with their past lives, and so forth. Because their their energy isn’t so focused on physical existence. They’re they’re still adapting. They’re developing adaptation to physical existence independently. But at that stage of development, where they’re still young, they have more capacity for those connections.
Brian Smith 27:11
Yeah, that all makes sense from the little that we know. And I just said we can only use analogies, but we do understand things like energies and frequencies and things that are in harmony or out of harmony. We can understand like analogies like radios, you know, we have a radio, we tune it to a certain frequency, we can hear what’s on that frequency. But we can’t hear what’s on the other frequency. But and I know sometimes we think oh, we feel like we should be able to understand anything but people that have had in the ears, they’ll come they’ll come back and they’ll say, I understood all this when I was there. But now that I’m back in his body, I can’t explain it to you because my brain can’t handle it.
Camille Dan 27:50
Exactly. And I had an OBE I’m not even sure if it was an N D I was five months pregnant with Aaron. We’ll get back
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Camille Dan 29:00
And all of it I had a high fever i don’t know i had some kind of infection. And I suddenly left my body I was floating above it looking down at it and not that interested in hanging around my body at all. I refer to my body as it you know not me. And there I was, you know looking around the room for escape routes. And I contemplated escaping going out through a tunnel of light out anywhere I wanted in the universe. So I thought okay, well I’m gonna go and I took one last look at my body there. And I noticed Oh, it’s pregnant. As soon as I had that thought it’s pregnant and maybe this isn’t good for the baby for me to not be in it. I got you know, like sucked back through that tunnel into my body. and I was still a skeptic thinking, Okay, that was my brain doing that. Yeah. But years later, when Aaron was about four or five years old, he was sitting in his car seat in the back of the car. And he asked, blurted out, remember when we were together a long time ago? Yeah. When you remember Aaron, when when do you mean? Oh, a really long time ago, way before the dinosaurs. And we could travel around the universe anywhere we wanted. And I was, like, goodness, he was four or five. I thought, Is he remembering something from my OBE? Wow, we were we were in that together? Wow.
Brian Smith 30:46
Yeah, you know, and it’s funny, because I think we all as we look back, and as you said, there, as our visions of reality start to expand, we look back into things in the past and go, Oh, maybe that’s what that was, you know, my girls, they were about seven and four, I think it we were sitting at the dinner table. And they made a comment about, we remember being in heaven and choosing you as our parents. And my wife and I were both like, oh, that’s we never taught anything about pre existence, that that was something they did not get from anybody around us. And we kind of at the time was like, it was really interesting. But now knowing what I know, I’m like this, you said, I truly believe that children, up until the age about at least five or six, there’s still way more connected to the other side. Because what we call the veil now, which is what keeps us alive, our ego, whatever you want to call it, we focus so much on this world that we can’t, that all gets blocked out.
Camille Dan 31:41
I 100% agree with that. And, and that’s what I’ve been hearing from Aaron and an ever pretty much everything I know, starts from Aaron I can I can actually look up in textbooks, I never would have opened before like a physics textbook and find something that he’s told me about and and some of it I’m sure it isn’t even, you know, in physics textbooks, because a lot of what we what’s around us, we can’t even see or, or measure with instruments, or really research.
Brian Smith 32:17
Well, you know, and you know, it is interesting because we we want to be rational and scientifically minded and stuff. And people might hear this and the term woowoo comes to mind, people are like, Oh, they’re just talking woowoo stuff. But the thing is, our physics is starting to catch up with some of this stuff, we’re starting to understand things about quantum physics. And quantum entanglement. I mean, Einstein hated that idea. He’s like, this doesn’t make any sense at all. But we’ve we know it’s true. Now, there can be a particle on one side of the universe, if you want to use that term, and a particle on another side of the universe in which you do that this particle immediately impacts the other particle at a distance that we can’t even comprehend. And of course, we have no idea how that works.
Camille Dan 33:00
No, but it’s something that we can demonstrate. And that can be measured. Actually, apparently, there are certain camera lenses that can photograph that actually. So we know it happens. We know by by inference by reference, how much of the universe is actually unseen dark energy, dark matter, we know that exists at some apparently something like 95% of the universe. We don’t possess the the cells in our eyes to see. So we don’t know if it exists yet. It shows us all the time that it exists, for instance, black holes, the event horizons, and Aaron showed me he talked a lot about about black holes and and showed me an event horizon actually, which I didn’t know what it was, but
Brian Smith 33:57
I don’t know what it is. So if you if you would explain to me what that is.
Camille Dan 34:01
So if you look up black holes on Google or any source, they always often show a photo of a ring of light around the black hole called the event horizon. And what that is, is that’s all the light that is surrounding the black hole, but in the black hole, light cannot emit. Okay, because of the gravitational forces in that sucking the light particles in only the light particles that are bouncing away from it or, or not getting sucked into the black hole are able to emit light and that’s what that ring is around them. Well, when Aaron described his transition to me, he showed me that and because, you know, when I he didn’t show me He has transitioned for a long time he waited until I was ready. And it takes a long time to get through that really thick fog of grief before you’re ready to actually hear about that. And when I was ready, he, he that was when he knew to tell me and he showed me he actually, sometimes I, he shows me in in visual images in my mind, he said that he woke up. And it was completely dark around him, there was no light. But suddenly, he showed me a circle of light. And funny enough, it’s almost July 4, and you know, those sparklers that we used to play with, and we’d go, we’d spin them in circles, and they would create that ring of light. That’s what it looks like. And he said that he since that was the only thing there he went towards it. And the closer he got, he was absorbed into it. And in that light, were people he knew who had already crossed over. And so later on, he stood when he started talking about event horizons around black holes, and I looked it up sure enough that there was that ring of light again. Yeah, and I’ve wondered at the time, was he telling me that he’s just in another part of the universe? We can’t see. But it’s there. It’s right all around us.
Brian Smith 36:37
Right? Yeah, he knows you’re saying that. So I’m reading this book about near death experiences right now. And people describe my people describe a tunnel. And it was funny because when Bruce Grayson did his breakdown of in the E. He did like an inventory of indie things, he left the tunnel out because he said people describe it as a tunnel, depending on their culture, because some people have tunnels, and some people don’t have tunnels. So one guy described it as a tailpipe. So the way it sounds like this might be something that people were if I see a ring of light, and they’re being drawn towards it, it would give the perception of a tunnel.
Camille Dan 37:14
Yeah, and my OBE, it was it was a tunnel. When I returned, I knew it was because the light was going the opposite direction, all the little particles of light I was, you know, rushing past. So but possibly, depending on what vantage point you’re at, in that in that phase of transition, it may look like a tunnel, or it may look like a circle, a ring of light, like Aaron showed me.
Brian Smith 37:43
Right? Right. And I think it depends depends on perception. And also like your, again, your past experiences. So you know, you now that when you see it, or when I see it, we might think of it as a black hole or as an event horizon. Because now we have that in our vocabulary. But you know, I you know, as a as a parent, you know, a lot of times when our kids transition, we think the worst we think were they alone? Were they scared, you know, are they in pain? And our mind always goes through the worst situation. So it’s good that you had that comfort that knowing that he was okay.
Camille Dan 38:19
Yeah, I mean, I’m very grateful. I know, not everybody has this has an experience like I have. But I also knew from Aaron to share it and and he encouraged me to share he’s been encouraging me to share. And he’s, he’s better, in my opinion. It’s validation for everyone. If I experienced this, this is what Aaron’s telling me this is to tell everyone so they get the experience to their, you know, he’s able to tell them through me.
Brian Smith 38:57
Right. Right and there there’s I think there can be people can take comfort or should take comfort from other people’s stories as well because again, I know parents who have children who have overdosed or had fentanyl is so common now, whether it’s intentional or unintentional, it’s it’s just killing so many kids. And again, parents, you know, think the absolute worst and we want to we want to know the answer to this question, but I have a lot of friends that are mediums just like you do. And I’ve got friends that say we never die alone. My one friend says, you know, just like you’re not born by yourself, you don’t die by yourself. It’s like, you know, even if you might have been in the room by yourself physically, there’s always someone there on the other side, kind of like midwives you know, welcoming you.
Camille Dan 39:48
Yes. And an Aaron Aaron said essentially the same thing to me. You know, where did they come up with? You’re born alone, and how can you possibly be born alone? Right. Well, You don’t ever die alone, either.
Brian Smith 40:03
Yeah, it’s just, it’s just, it’s just a transition. So it’s really great to have that, that comfort. And I really appreciate you sharing it because, you know, we get these messages and we can keep them to ourselves. But you talked earlier about how, you know, once we start sharing these things, you can see other people’s faces kind of light up, and then suddenly, they’re like, oh, maybe it’s okay for me to share my story.
Camille Dan 40:26
Absolutely. And that was what was happening. And what one day Aaron planted that, in my mind, you’re gonna write another book, but this time, the book isn’t just going to be about my story with Aaron, it’s going to be about a lot of people’s stories. So I started talking about it with people who, who I had spoken to, you know, prior. And, you know, I have enough interest in it, I had a small handful of people and we thought, okay, let’s, let’s do this, let’s put a book together, we’ll, we’ll each write our individual stories. And, and, you know, all these stories will help validate other people’s stories and encourage other people to share. Well, one day I posted to my little group about it and and next thing I knew a lot of people were jumping in with interest. And within no time, there were over 40 people interested in sharing their stories, and, and it became gathering at the doorway. And it the subtitle is an anthology of signs, visits and messages from the afterlife. And these are stories, varying stories from a variety of people around the world, with different backgrounds, different beliefs, different upbringings, who all share that part of their stories in common, the signs, the messages, and the visits that they receive from across the veil in different ways. But, you know, they’re validating that they are receiving them. So I just, you know, think this is wonderful. And, and since the book was published, it was just, it just came out on Mother’s Day this year. The feedback I’m getting from so many more people who have started to read the book, and they want to share their stories they so they write me their own stories.
Brian Smith 42:33
Well, let’s let’s do some name dropping, because it’s a pretty impressive list of people you’ve got in the book to tell us who some of the people are. I know there’s a lot of people that have written forwards and endorsements. So talk about that.
Camille Dan 42:45
Well, I’ll drop your name first, then Brian. And you know, I mean, of course, I had been following you before and and the fact that you, you joined in and contributed your chapter about about Shayna, European beautiful light and beautiful daughter, who is behind you in the photo I see. You know, such a I’m just so grateful and such an incredible addition to the book. Suzanne Kaseman wrote a beautiful foreword for the book, Sandra Champlain. Also, Robert Ginsburg from the founder of Forever Family Foundation. And, you know, a variety variety of people from varying losses. For instance, Jan Warner, who wrote the book, grief day by day, wrote about her her experiences her personal experiences after losing her husband, Jane Asher Rainey, who wrote a book called The next room, she also contributed a chapter about her messages and conversations with her mother in spirit. Elizabeth blas on and Mark Ireland, the co founders of helping parents heal groups that I that, you know, I’m very deeply grateful for and you’re also involved with on their board. And as a caring listener. They contributed chapters, Elizabeth about her son and daughter in spirit and Mark about his son, Dr. Mark Pitts stick from the soul phone foundation contributed a wonderful chapter. And there well, there’s over 40 authors.
Brian Smith 44:41
Yeah, and I know it’s, it’s we don’t want to leave anybody out hope no one’s offended because you can’t go through all of them. But I just want you to give us kind of a smattering of people because I realized Camille, as I said, first of all, I want to thank you for putting this together because I saw how much work you put into this and how much energy it took and I know But it’s like trying to get people together and publish it. And I think it’s going to be one of the great, it’s a great resource. I mean, when I do great for people, I’m always looking like people like, well, what can I What can I give to someone. And the thing is that to be really frank, the book can be overwhelming, cuz it’s so big. But the great thing is, every story stands on its own, but it also fits together as one piece. So you can pick it up and just read a chapter. You don’t have to read it in order, you don’t have to read the whole thing. But just to know that, first of all, you’re not alone. If you’re if you’re not getting signs, and other people are getting signs, and also what are signs, what are signs and what are synchronicities because we get them sometimes, and people don’t recognize them.
Camille Dan 45:46
All the time, a lot of times people assume the signs they’re going to see and they miss the signs that actually are given to them. They’re focused on what they’re expecting, rather than on what their loved one sends and, and our loved ones are each as much individuals and unique as we all are, and they contact us in their own unique ways. So being open is really important. But the you know, the point you made about the book being very thick, over 40 chapters, I am hearing from a lot of people that they’ll look through the table of contents and a chapter title will jump out at them. And that’s where they start the book. And maybe they put it down and they pick it up later they read another chapter, some people read one chapter a night. And the other thing people are really appreciative of is that each author’s bio and contact information of websites and their and if they’ve written books, not all of our authors or have ever written a book before, but many have. Those are at the end of each chapter. And if a person finds that a chapter or some chapters resonate with them, and they want to seek out further information from one of our authors, it’s all right there in the book for them, they can easily their websites are right there. So a lot of people are appreciating that because like you said, they they don’t have any prior experience and something resonates with them or rings a bell for them. And especially they find that particular author is someone they’d like to follow. So they’re able to do that.
Brian Smith 47:36
Yeah, like I said, that’s why I think it’s a great reference. I mean, I think it’s a great thing. If someone says if I had to give in, I’m always looking for that one book. For somebody, it’s like, what’s the one book to give to somebody when they’re going through this? And I think that’s, I think it’s a great book for that, because you just said you could start anywhere. And I’ve had so many times with people on that list of I don’t get any science, I don’t you know, because you’re like, Okay, it’s for me, they think it’s just a dream visit, or it’s just feathers and having these different ways that our loved ones communicate with us. And you talked about earlier, the the note from the person that said that was channeling Aaron, and then getting the message from the detective. But you know, a little bit later on, we also have to keep in mind our loved ones, they’re not bound by by time, or at least not by our time. So sometimes, to me the most fun, the most amazing signs are the ones where they, they’ll tell us something’s gonna happen in the future, or they’ll drop a hint about something is gonna happen in the future. And we have no idea how that works.
Camille Dan 48:35
We have no idea how time works, except within our frame of reference. But Aaron talks a lot about how time is a dimension and of itself, where he is, you know, things happen, they don’t just happen in a certain place. They happen in a certain times. So it’s not about where they are, it’s about when they are. And he tells me that energy is the source of creation. And so everything in our universe is created from energy that includes us, and where they are, they can create, they have the ability to create their own experiences, any time they want. So they can they can be creating something that’s that’s to us is might seem like it’s in our past, but it’s in their present. And so he says that love is the source energy of Creation and everything is created from love. And we are created from love all of us and we have the ability we have a special ability in the matter state physical state of matter that we’re in to create because we have brains. We have hands we have tools for creation words we have thoughts. So it’s very interesting when you when you think about energy being the source of all that’s created, and they’re just they’re at another level of energy than we are and their abilities to create are beyond well beyond ours.
Brian Smith 50:24
Yeah, absolutely. So, you know, as we’re sitting here talking, I was thinking about one of the synchronicities that I got, and I just still blows my mind at this day. I listen to podcasts all the time. So I was gonna go for a walk every morning, and let’s listen to this podcast. And this person said, one of the signs my daughter gave me after she passed is like, I would be out somewhere, and somebody will walk up to me and say, I knew your daughter, you know, and they would introduce themselves. And I’m like, why never thought of that as a sign doesn’t sound like a sign to me, you know, but I’m like, so this idea is planted in my head. I’m going for a walk that day, same route, I walk every single day. And I get to this one point, I see this woman walking down her driveway towards me, and I’m I wear earbuds. I’m, like, barely paying attention. I’m like, she’s approaching me. So I take my earbuds out. And I’m like, Hi. And she says, Hi, she goes, I’m Nicole. And I’m Morgan’s mother, and your daughter Shana was in Girl Scouts with my daughter. I see you walking by here every day. So this morning, I just thought to introduce myself to you. I had walked the same route for a couple of years at least. And she had never said anything to me. But that morning, I heard that podcast and then she came on Introduce yourself. I’m like, this is weird.
Camille Dan 51:37
Oh, yeah, they’re well. Okay, so let’s that is a synchronicity. That that is definitely a synchronicity and things like that happen all the time to me, and it just happened. Because that happened to me yesterday. And oh, wow. You’re telling me about it today. Wow. Very. Wow. Yes. Where I wasn’t even thinking about it. And someone came up to me and and said they knew Aaron. And you don’t think about the exactly. You don’t think that’s a synchronicity when it happens? We find out later. And here we are.
Brian Smith 52:16
It’s it’s crazy. I’ve got goosebumps just thinking about this. Because I don’t know why I told you that story. And this is a thing I’m saying we so the engineer in me wants to analyze it’s like, okay, did the I heard that podcast? And then did Shana put that thought into her head? So that she walked out that day? And then did she put that thought into my head? So I tell you this story right now. And you know, the fact is, it doesn’t matter how it works. It’s kind of fun to ponder it. But this is the thing that a book like this can help people understand is like, the things that we just just miss. It’s just ordinary things. They’re not there’s there’s divine timing and everything. And we just every once in a while we pick up on it.
Camille Dan 52:55
Absolutely. Absolutely. And like you said, it, doesn’t it Aaron says the same thing that you’re saying. It really isn’t all about how we look at things. It’s about that we look at them, and how we feel because we spirit energy communicates with us through our feelings. And you know, when you were telling me your story, your synchronicity, and I’m like, the feelings in me, it’s like, you know, I was just getting all goosebumps and all excited to tell you. I have a synchronicity with your synchronicity. And this is really how the universe works.
Brian Smith 53:36
Yeah. And I think that’s another really important point. And it’s especially for someone like myself, who is as left brain analytical as I am. And I’ve just learned this over the past seven years I’ve seen as Angel Versary was this past Friday. So it’s been seven years. But it’s about feelings. It’s about feelings and emotions. It’s not about thoughts. And that’s hard. I think for a lot of us in the Western world, a lot of people who consider themselves rational. And I’ve come to the conclusion, it’s like, feelings are not like less than intellect or rational. They’re actually above, it’s actually beyond. So the our feelings can take us beyond that. And sometimes we just have to trust and trust that feeling.
Camille Dan 54:21
I fully agree with that. And, you know, the fact that thoughts are secondary to feelings. You know, you have the feeling first and then you have the thought, trying to figure out what your feeling was and trying to define it in some way. So you’re right. Feelings are our first form of communication. And feelings are energy. So you know, where that energy is coming from. We don’t know, but it’s not. It’s coming from all around us all the time. It’s flowing through us all the time. Time. And our kids, our loved ones, who are part of that energy are part of us all the time in that way too. And they feel our feelings. That’s how we communicate with them through feelings.
Brian Smith 55:15
Yes. And I think that I, I want to I do want to belabor that point, because a lot of times I hear people say, I’m not hearing from my loved one brothers, my child, my husband, my, whatever that has passed. And it’s like, it’s because you’re not, you’re not feeling you’re not, you’re not leaning in those feelings that relying on them. And I realized that they’re very, very subtle. So people asked me, someone asked me the day this is do you talk to your daughter, and I’m like, like, talk to her every day. I mean, literally, I talked to her every day. But I’ve had to learn that. A lot of times when I’m hearing from her, unlike you, it’s not in her voice. It’s not from outside my head. It’s like, she’s part of me, she’s like, in me. So it comes comes more from inside me that comes from outside of me. And so I have to lean into that and trust that because that’s the way they communicate with with most of us.
Camille Dan 56:03
Yeah, and that is even to feel them as a part of us is even a higher level of connection error. And it did get to that. In the beginning, when I was hearing him from outside my head. I think my grief feelings were, you know, getting in the way a lot of the time and you know what he said to me, it’s okay to have fear, grief feelings, they’re normal, you’re supposed to feel grief, that’s a part of love. But he said, he also said, If I really need to tell you something I really need to get to you. He said, I can get to like I did through a friend I can get to through a bird I can. I can communicate with you in other ways. I think when we get to that point, you’re at where you feel your daughter as a part of you, your feelings. You’re fully melded with each other. You’re fully connected at that point.
Brian Smith 57:05
Yeah, I think it’s a great point. And it’s something frankly, as we’re talking about, it’s just really starting to hit me because we, we tend to what what other people have. So a lot of us will say I you know, I like to I’ve heard people like this, I like to have an NDA, it’s like, No, you wouldn’t say by the time, you do not want to have an NDA. But you know, I like to get a dream visit. You know, if we don’t have dream visits aren’t like, Oh, I wish I could hear the audible voice. And I’ve said the past I have no, I wish I could feel my daughter touch me. I’ve heard people say that or stuff like that. And we all we all kind of want that thing that we don’t have. And we get we got I think we’d sometimes have things upside down. And I think as we start to merge with them melt with them. I like that. Because I was thinking the other day I was walking like I haven’t found a feather in a long time. You know, I’m found a diamond logs, I found a dime, the day before Shane is Angel Versary. But that before that it had been a long time. And I think as we start to make that connection, they’re like, Okay, well, then they don’t need that as much anymore. They don’t need those external signs.
Camille Dan 58:06
Absolutely. They don’t need those external signs as much. Because your your communication as one, you you’re both having the same feelings together, you’re so connected. But also, you know, when when Aaron tells me that, you know, they will, they will send you those external signs as well. You know, you have to watch for the timing of them what’s happening at the time, you know, and the other thing he says to me is Ask, ask for them. Right? You need to ask if you know, and you have to ask sometimes a lot for signs. And sometimes I asked him for a specific sign Aaron, can you send me this specific sign of feather a dime or something like that? And guess what? Well, he sends me a very specific sign. But it wasn’t the dime or the feather but it was always something so extraordinary. You know that I forgot about the sign I asked for and he sent me an even better one. And I’ve I’ve been able to even get some of those on on photo a photos of those on my phone and and those are pictures of those are in the book too. And other authors who have been able to get photos of signs that have occurred for them are also in the book and some of them are just like unbelievable when you see them wow.
Brian Smith 59:41
Yeah, actually the rise man need to see if I can find it. I’m sure I can find it somewhere because one day I was on my phone I have a podcast in every podcast cover in my in my phone had changed his picture of Shayna. It’s a picture saying one of my favorite pictures ever where she’s like these building blocks. And I’m like how did that happened. And I was freaked out because I thought it had changed like in the database like apples level. So I went, I looked from what from my computer and it wasn’t that way for my computer, it was only on my phone, and then went back to my phone later on, and they were back to the way they normally were. And again, I’m like, Okay, how did this happen? I want to know what but I’ll never know. But it was weird.
Camille Dan 1:00:23
Okay, if you want to call it weird, I sounds to me like that was a sign. Yeah, yeah. What was happening at the time? What were your thoughts at the time? Were you thinking of Shayna at the time? You know, I mean, it’s just, that’s an important part of it. And a lot of people recommend to write it down. Because we forget, especially with our grief, brains, forgetting is a big part of grieving. And, and part of the reason I started journaling Erin’s signs and messages to me, so I wouldn’t forget them. And, you know, so So writing them down, not just the sign itself, I got this as a sign, but what was happening at the time, and then you can really start connecting the dots to figure out the messages.
Brian Smith 1:01:12
Yeah, exactly. And journaling is really important, I think, for a number of reasons. One is because of grief brain, which is real. And people will go through that. And like, I’m losing my mind. It’s like, no, that’s just that’s a part of what we go through. We all we all, we forget things and things don’t really register. But the other thing is we we tend to think, oh, it’s been forever since I’ve gotten a sign. I never get signs, I don’t get them anymore. And it’s good to be able to go back and look. And I get reminded cuz I do this all the time. So as I’m talking to you, I’m like, oh, yeah, there was that. And there was this and there was that. So we can say, Yeah, it’s really easy to forget about him, especially when we get into our funky states that we forget how much they do care for us.
Camille Dan 1:01:53
Absolutely. Absolutely. And that’s an amazing sign you got just amazing.
Brian Smith 1:01:58
Yeah. So the book, I know, it benefits, a lot of charities, I want to talk about some of the charities because and I love the way you tell the story of beginning by air or air and tying that together with the fact that he’s such a giving soul and that you’re giving the proceeds of his book away. And so it’s not only doing good, because it’s helping people who are reading it, but it’s also helping other people.
Camille Dan 1:02:21
Yeah, yeah. I mean, for me, you know, there was no doubt in my mind. You know, when I wrote my first book, that I would give the proceeds of book sales to charities that Aaron would have supported in his lifetime. And that’s how it started. It started that way. And, and when I discovered helping parents heal, I felt that I was led there by Aaron, I just have come such a long way forward, in in my grief journey, as a result of finding helping parents heal. And I do believe our kids guide us, I do believe our loved ones guide us and a lot of the times you you have to look back and say, Oh, well, how did I even get here? And it becomes obvious. So so, you know, anything that I feel that that relates to Aaron and and something that he’s guided me to? I give the proceeds to? And I discovered Forever Family Foundation as well. I found their podcasts and you know, it’s interesting. We have another synchronicity in common with with we don’t die and Sandra Champlain. And Sandra Champlain’s podcasts was the first podcast I ever listened to. I never listened to podcasts before Erin transitioned. And I found them. And that was the first one and, you know, so that led me to find another one and another one and another one and to find books, through the most of the podcasts I listened to are done by authors like yourself. And so finding my way through this journey, I have, I believe, I’ve been totally guided by Aaron through it. And I also believe that all the connections I’ve made with the authors in the book are guided by not just by Aaron to me, but by their loved ones. You know, and you know it, it just keeps growing.
Brian Smith 1:04:41
Yeah, I know some people that might be a new concept to them that, you know, our loved ones are guiding us and I remember not too long after my daughter’s transition. I was talking to one of my cousins and she said, you know, Shayna is is your ancestor now and I’m like, I don’t like that idea. But but you know I I’ve come to realize that yes, when we cross in the spirit we become harder. I was interviewing someone the other day and podcast hasn’t come out yet but she calls the ancestor realm so we go into the ancestor Roma we’re are back to our, our higher, fuller selves, and they have a different perspective than it’s not that they’re better than we are. But they just have a different perspective. They’re there, their their eyes are opened up again, so to speak. So they do guide us they do lead us into an unknown helping parents heal. We talked about this all the time. Our kids are helping us make these connections. And, you know, here I am seven years on, and the first podcast I listened to was Sandra Champlain, I’ve been on her podcasts, I think three times now. And I never thought that would be it was funny, because I was at a conference with her several years ago at a Rei and she came up to me and she’s goes, Oh, I’ve been I’ve been following you. She said, I want to have you on my show. And I’m like, that’s weird. I’m surprised she knows who I am. Turns out, she thought I was someone else. So I was like, I was so disappointed. But I ended up being on her show later on, when she realized, you know, she finally got to beat me. And so that was pretty interesting. Whether that turned out,
Camille Dan 1:06:08
that’s a great story. And, you know, I think even more evidence, you know, that, that you were guided to each other. And, you know, during the writing and compiling of, of our Anthology, I was saying, we have a book club across the veil cheering us on, and it’s a stadium full of souls. And I do believe that I believe they’re a team, they’re they, they’re a team and, and our kids are all a team. And our loved ones are all a team and, and they, they team up with our guides, and they team up with, you know, whatever energy is necessary to, to, you know, show us the way you know, and we can choose whether or not to follow it. Right. And I’m really glad that for everyone that has chosen to follow it, because I think we’ve we’ve all done something really remarkable and taking the lead on encouraging others to share and, and, you know, I think the more we share our stories, the more comforted we feel. And also, the more we break down barriers between people, we open doors. And I think we also draw ourselves closer to our loved ones, we were kind of thinning the veil, or, or, you know, the door, you know, the books called gathering at the doorway, the door keeps opening wider. And when we get that door open wide enough, we’ll see a huge crowd across the other side of it.
Brian Smith 1:07:44
Yeah, I think, you know, again, I think the the work that you’re doing in this book, and your books are so important, because another thing about grief is we feel alone, you know, we’re world for people and again, special for us, I think parents who have lost children, we feel like okay, this is never happened anybody else, this is why we feel, you know, no one else has to go through this is just me. And the thing is, we’re never, we’re never alone, literally, we’re never alone, you know, whether it’s people on the other side of the veil, people on this side of the veil. And if you open yourself up to allowing, just looking around and open up to the possibilities, people will come into your life. It’s funny, because I don’t know about you, but like, I lost people in my life when Shayna transition people that I thought were close to me, and this seems to be universal. But then people came into my life I never dreamed to come into my life.
Camille Dan 1:08:37
Oh, me too. And I am very so grateful. I think both of us would agree we’d rather not have had a reason for any of this. And it was fully unexpected. Nothing a parent ever expects, you know, but to be able to have gratitude. I also wouldn’t have expected if it wasn’t for the people that came into my life. And I do believe that, that Aaron brought me to these people and you know, they’ve become close friends of mine for a very unexpected reason. You know, but yeah, and it is, life is full of changes. You know, we’re all going to experience loss. Whether or not we’re going to grieve loss, I think is dependent on how deep our ability to love and how deep our love is for those people. So I you know, I guess I I hadn’t experienced a loss like this until Aaron’s transition to to know what, you know, what can be beyond it, right?
Brian Smith 1:09:59
Yeah, Well, the thing is, if we were here long enough, it’s just that we’re the only thing guarantee in life is that we’re going to, there’s going to be changed. The other thing is guaranteed in life, we’re here long enough, you know, we’re going to be parted by, by death by our death or the death of a loved one. That’s, that’s just guaranteed that’s part of the deal. But there’s something about there’s certain transitions because of the timing of them. Again, losing a child is so unexpected. And so out of order that I see that it’s it changes the course here. I tell people, there’s before sharing that transition and disaster. That is a demarcation in my life. And we can choose what we do afterwards. Now the growth is not inevitable. It’s not it doesn’t just happen, we can choose it. But it’s, it’s pretty amazing what our loved ones do to help us. And that’s what I like I said, I get from talking to you about, you know, Aaron’s energy, and about gathering at the doorway, is it, it can open that door for other people to the possibilities to say, yeah, let me look out for this. Let me let me see what’s available. What’s out there?
Camille Dan 1:11:02
Yes, absolutely. Absolutely. And, you know, I really do believe now that I’ve come to a point where I see Aaron in everything, you know, and and in every, every new relationship, I make Erin’s a part of it. Our loved ones are there. They’re they’re all a part of it. Yeah, it wouldn’t be otherwise. Right.
Brian Smith 1:11:27
Right. Well, you know, it’s funny, because we’ve helped the parents heal. We’ve had one conference it was three years ago, I guess now. And being in that being in that gathering, I mean, we feel it feels more like family than even friends. I mean, I would say we’re more like, we’re more like family. And we’re getting right out of the conference coming up. We’re recording this at the end of June. So it’s coming up in a couple of months in August. And it’s a it’s a club that none of us would have joined intentionally. But it’s an amazing resource for people. So like my, I’m always pushing I’m on the board. So but I don’t get paid. So this is not like self promoting, but it’s just such a wonderful resource for people and are it’s something that our loved ones put together. I believe.
Camille Dan 1:12:09
I do too. And it’s just a it’s a lifesaver for me. I don’t know what I would where I would be. And you’re right. It’s it. It’s it is people feel like family feels like one huge family and our kids or family members to like we’re all we all know, we know each other in a way other people don’t,
Brian Smith 1:12:33
you know, there’s that there, there’s an instant connection. With Camille, we’re coming to the end of our time together. I want to make sure that people are aware of where they can reach, reach, you find out more about Aaron’s energy. So if you could give your website and let’s go over the names of the books again.
Camille Dan 1:12:49
So my most recent book gathering at the doorway, an anthology of signs, visits and messages from the afterlife is available on Amazon, Barnes and Noble, and through good reads also through hyperlinks. at my website, www dot Erin’s energy.com. You can see a full list of donation recipients, updates, events. And links to all of the authors as well are on my website. Aaron’s energy my first book is also available at all those sources and it’s also available in audible.
Brian Smith 1:13:33
Yeah, awesome. Camille, it’s been great to have you here today. Thanks for Thanks for doing this podcast. Thanks for doing what you do. The book is just a wonderful resource and thanks for asking me to be a part of
Camille Dan 1:13:45
it. Well, thank you, Brian. I can’t express my gratitude enough for you and all of your work and for being on your show. Right
Brian Smith 1:13:54
Unknown Speaker 1:13:57
YouTube, thanks for being here.
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