R. Scott Malone is a long-time acupuncturist, martial artist, and meditation practitioner. He is especially interested and focused on the relationships between the energetics of the body, the heart, and consciousness.
Scott and I discussed a broad range of topics from energy healing, to our true eternal nature, to the role of religion in our lives.
You can find out more about Scott at:

Transcript

Brian Smith 0:00
Close your eyes and imagine what are the things in life that causes the greatest pain, the things that bring us grief, or challenges, challenges designed to help us grow to ultimately become what we were always meant to be. We feel like we’ve been buried, but what if, like a seed we’ve been planted, and having been planted, to grow to become a mighty tree. Now, open your eyes, open your eyes to this way of viewing life. Come with me as we explore your true, infinite, eternal nature. This is grief to growth. And I am your host, Brian Smith. Hey everybody, this is Brian back with another episode of free for growth. And today I’ve got with me are SCOTT MALONE, and I’m going to read a very short bio for Scott and then we’re going to get started. Scott is a longtime acupuncturist, a martial artist and a meditation practitioner. I am especially interested in focus on the relationships between the energetics of the body, the heart and the consciousness. And to give you more information where you can find out about Scott, you for acupuncture and go to infinite pillar calm, it’s infinite. P i ll AR calm for energetic table work and consulting, go to esoteric consultant calm. And we’ll cover those again at the end of the show. But with that, I want to introduce Scott Malone

R Scott Malone 1:27
Hello, hello.

Brian Smith 1:28
Hey, Scott,

thanks for being here today.

R Scott Malone 1:30
Yeah, appreciate you having me up.

Brian Smith 1:32
Yeah, it’s great to meet you. Fascinating guy, we met through a mutual friend of ours, Jake, somebody Edie who recommended that I speak with you. And we had a short conversation and I think you’ll be really interested, are just be interested in hearing your story and how you got into energetic work and what your thoughts are between the body heart and mind connection? Yeah. So how did you get into this work?

R Scott Malone 1:58
Well, I have to say, so I’ve been a, I’ve been a martial artist forever. Both my parents are chiropractors. And so there was this, there’s a sense of healing in the family. So I would see somebody come into the clinic bent over and then over a series of, of days, I would see them, you know, better, you know, or weeks, I would see them standing up. And so I really, I really thought there was something to that there was something really interesting about about that. And when I realized, you know, my father, I would never have the last word if I was a chiropractor. So I thought, you know, I ended up going into acupuncture. And it was interesting, from a martial arts perspective, all the points that you would strike are essentially the points that you use to heal. So it’s like, it’s how you approach anything you can approach it with with mal intent or with good intent. But really what happened is, after I got back from India, my teacher, my teacher said, so what are you going to do now that you’re back from India, you’ve had this this trip? And I said, Well, you know, it’s thinking about, you know, there was a, it was a Sufi retreat for a month in India. And it went to a lot of Buddhist places, like we ended up at the mahabodhi temple. And so there was a lot of Tibetan influence, along with the speaking with the Sufi, because pure light was very much engaged with the Tibetans. And so when I got back, I thought, well, I said, You know, I think I may go to college and get a degree and teach Tibetan studies. And my teacher was Kurt, Ben wilts. He’s got a number of books. He’s since passed. But he said, because he’d been in the Scholastic world, and, and it had been pretty rough. And he said, Have you ever thought of acupuncture? And it was like, somebody hit me in the stomach with a bag of bricks. And, uh, probably about two weeks later, I was enrolled. So it just felt like that was something that you were called to. It was just yeah, it was just boom, it all of a sudden I was like, Oh, my God. That’s it. So

Brian Smith 4:20
and this was around college age this time?

R Scott Malone 4:24
Yeah. Okay. Yeah. So probably, let’s see, I went to India in 94. Hmm. So maybe a little past college age. Okay. Okay. So yeah. And that was actually one of the things that I remember. It was the last day of the retreat, and everybody had gathered together and they were kind of, you know, being together one last time and I was just broken, the retreat broke me. And I was on top of this Tibetan monastery. In Nepal, the coupon monastery Everybody is together singing and I just remember sitting on top of the roof. And I just remember telling God, I was like, you either have to tell me what to do, or you have to take me out, because I just I can’t stand it anymore. And it started raining on me. Oh, okay. All right, I get it. I’m just going inside that. But then when I got back, you know, and I felt like it was a rejection at the time. But then when I got back, my, my teacher said, you know, what are you going to do? Have you considered acupuncture? And it was it and it all came together. So Well, yeah.

Brian Smith 5:39
So how do you train for acupuncture? Where do you go to do that?

R Scott Malone 5:43
So there’s schools everywhere. I think here, I’m in Colorado now. So I think here, there’s, I think, two in Boulder and one in Denver. Um, so essentially, it’s, um, I think now they’ve changed it. I did two years of prerequisites. And then I did all my time squished into three years, but I think now they’re moving towards a four and four. model. Okay. So it’s a it’s pretty extensive. And somebody somebody was saying, Yeah, it’s a little bit like going to med school and Chinese. Yeah, yeah. I don’t think that it’s probably as far as the hard sciences go, it’s a lot more on the theory, and then the instruction understanding of the points and, and how the, the whole body works in a in a holistic way. Mm hmm.

Brian Smith 6:31
So it’s interesting, you said, you know, opening, you said, there’s, there’s a relationship between the points that you strike in martial arts and the points that you, I guess, use in acupuncture,

R Scott Malone 6:41
right. So there’s, um, there. So basically, if you have the energetic system, and it depends on what level you’re sort of fighting it. So if you’re, if you’re, you know, boxing is doing enough damage, not somebody out. But if you look at some of the Eastern arts, once you start working with the energetic bodies, then you can use that energetic body to attack another energetic body. Hmm. So we have these meridians and lines running through us of the energy. And there’s there’s a study called democ. And in some Denmark, you have certain times of day where the energy is in different meridians. And you can attack different organs like that. But if you have enough energy, when you strike somebody you’re looking at affecting their energetic system it as much or more than just a physical, a physical attack. So there’s, there’s a point right here, it’s a pericardium, six empiric cardium, six in the body is used to open the chest, it helps with anxiety, it helps with stress, it can also the pericardium protects the heart. So people who have past traumas locked into the heart of the pericardium will take those hits, so that the heart is protected, it’s also known as the heart protector. And so when you activate the pericardium channel, one of the things you can do is release some of those past traumas that are that are locked into the body. But if you strike it, then it actually causes your whole meridian system to light up. So that the next strikes that you do on somebody in a in an energetic way, cause more damage. So

Brian Smith 8:26
yeah, explain to me the relationship between the different bodies. There’s, you mentioned the physical and the energetic, are there other bodies and how do they interrelate?

R Scott Malone 8:37
So I look at, I look at essentially the three the three centers the lower donchian, which is the second chakra, below the navel, right. And that’s, that’s, so we’ll talk about just the three from the Dallas perspective, but I fully recognize the rest from the Buddhist and the Hindu perspective as well. So that’s going to be your physical body. And so when you’re doing Qigong, the whole idea is to revitalize and build and strengthen the physical body and the energetic body, so that you work optimally as a human being, from a Buddhist perspective, so the Buddhists and the Taoist have the biggest influence and cheekbone with the Confucian, Qigong being kind of a distant third. So from the Buddhist perspective, you want to increase longevity, so that you have a longer chance to attain enlightenment. Hmm, so that’s some of the impetus for that, that that she goes on. Then you move into the heart center, and then you have other hotta So that’s the second the middle donchian and this is a good you know, obviously the emotional center and so you have your your emotional body, and then up in the upper Center at the Eisner or the Third Eye Center. Then you’re dealing more with the mud. So those are the three main bodies. But there’s also, to be honest, if you look at lead better, and the Thea theosophist, there’s the causal body and the spiritual body, and I don’t know that it ends, just your awareness of the bodies expands out, you know, there’s probably a cosmic body that’s connected, but you’d have to have a cosmic consciousness to tune into it or something.

Brian Smith 10:25
Yeah, but it’s from a Western perspective, we think of our bodies like I have a body. Yeah, a body. Yeah, and what you’re talking about an expansion of that, that I have multiple bodies, you mentioned the physical body and the energy body. So that’s a, that’s going to be a new concept of things, a lot of people,

R Scott Malone 10:41
you know, and the thing is, it’s one thing, it’s one body, it’s just the spectrum. And if you look at, if you look at, say energy, moving at a slower rate to a finer rate, you know, x rays to matter, you know, high energy, vibration, lower energy, vibration, but it’s all still the same thing, and you can’t separate it out. And I think sometimes people have this idea of, you know, they’re gonna work with one in, in opposition to another or solely without the other, and it just doesn’t work that way. I think one of the fascinating things about acupuncture, when you find somebody that works with it, a lot of acupuncture is, um, you know, it’s very functional medicine, my shoulder hurts, can you fix my frozen shoulder, and that’s all they want. And that’s fine. You know, irregular cycles, migraines, all of the the standard stuff that humans go through. But there’s a deeper level of acupuncture when you look at five element theory, and the five elements each have emotions attached to them. So if you have say, fire, it’s joy, lack of joy. And then if you have Earth, it’s um, nourishing the lack of being nourished worry. And then metal is grief, which would be say, large intestine and lung. And that’s the inability to grieve or the inability to stop grieving. And then you have metal water is fear. And then wood, lung and liver, gallbladder is anger, resentment, frustration, unfulfilled desire. So all of these home two different organ systems fire is heart and small intestine, earth, the stomach, spleen, pancreas. Let’s see water is kidney, kidney, bladder. So what you have an issue physiologically, sometimes it is caused by an emotional problem in the emotional body. So if you have, you know, somebody that lost somebody, then you might have grief. But we have a normal timespan for immediate, immediate grief for like the bright, shining, horrible grief. But after a certain time, it should sort of smooth out to a certain extent, anger is the same way you should be angry, and then it should pass. But when those things get stuck, when those emotions get stuck, then they can have a physiological impact. So you can have somebody who’s grieving very hard, and they can’t, they can’t reconcile, they can’t get over it. And what will happen is eventually it will start to weaken their lungs and their large intestine. Because the emotion of grief is the lungs and letting go is the large intestine. Hmm. By the same token, you could have somebody who is a longtime smoker, or they lived in a really they lived in like Old Delhi, and, or Beijing, and they’re constantly breathing in pollution. Um, ultimately, what can happen is they can realize that they’re, they’re sad all the time. They’re grieving all the time. Or they can’t let any little thing go. So it’s a it’s a two way street. And the The interesting thing about, you know, acupuncture and working with the energetic body is that it doesn’t really matter which came first. The body, the emotions will release.

Brian Smith 14:09
Yeah, that’s really interesting that you said that because you said it’s kind of like there’s that look, I can operate on a feedback loop. So yeah, either one can affect the other. You know, I think about grief obviously, my shows grief to growth, I deal with people in grief. So I’m glad that you said that. And I want to get back to how we can maybe use some of these techniques to help people grieve. But I also think about like depression we were so in the West are so caught up on like brain chemistry causing depression. Yeah. And I wonder if it can go both ways that our thoughts can cause our brain chemistry to change?

R Scott Malone 14:42
Yeah, I think absolutely. And in my, in my experience, that’s absolutely true. You can have people that are there and depression is one of those kind of catch all words who I always ask me what’s your flavor of depression? You know, because they’re the because that will kind of clue me in until what organs system that I that I need to work with you just scoot back a little bit. So yeah, I definitely think it does because the, you know, the energetic will affect the physiology. And if you look at the CI body, right, the the energetic system where all the meridians and the acupuncture points are, and that ci body is the interface between the physical body, and then your higher awareness. And so, but it can go anywhere, anywhere from the spectrum when I was I trained a little bit with the Sufi is in a work called the Rafi lat work. And it’s part of the Sufi healing order. And they spoke about, you know, the the physical, energetic mental, emotional body, and then they talked about spiritual body. And they were saying essentially, that any anything any imbalance in any of those bodies, the buck stops at the physical body. Mm hmm. So eventually, if it goes on long enough, if you have a spiritual crisis, and it’s unresolved, you know, and like we were talking a little bit earlier about, you know, people feeling like God rejected them. Yeah, you know, if you have something like that, and it’s unresolved, eventually, it will hone down into the physical body, it may take 20 years, but eventually it will show up in the physical body, because how can it not it’s all one thing, it just, it’ll have to filter through, you know?

Brian Smith 16:28
Yeah, well, all these things is I’m understanding it there, we, we tend to like to want to separate them out. But they’re all part of us. Right? We’re and it’s kind of like, they’re, they’re just different aspects of who we are. And, again, I think in the West, we really focused on just what we can see and touch and feel, right, we said, this impacts this, this is the answer to everything, you know, so if you’ve got a problem, take a pill, and the pill will will solve your emotional problem. But you know, I think it’s again, I think it’s it goes both ways. So in the case of what you do with working with the energy body, that can actually impact the physical body, and that’s, that’s kind of new to a lot of people.

R Scott Malone 17:09
Yeah. And, and to be honest, I really do a lot more just straight, energetic work, versus using the needles. Hmm. So the needles work. I mean, the needles somebody asked me, you know, it’s funny, because people go, so does, I’ll tell them something, and, you know, majan Oh, yeah. And I do acupuncture, and they’ll say, does that really work? Am I and it always blows my mind. And so my response is essentially the same. And, and it’s, it’s essentially, you know, it’s a, it’s 500 years documented, but possibly as many as 5000 years, and people are still doing it, you know, trial error, refinement, repeat, you know, so. So, the, the Beatles actually work. Um, but there was somebody who was talking, I think, I was reading a book by Damon Mitchell, who writes great books on Dallas neigong. His book is called Dallas neigong, which is a, it’s sort of a primer from I don’t know anything about yin and yang to I’d like to do Qi Gong ne Gong, which and they Gong is a higher internal energetic practice. But he was saying, in one of his books that initially, what would happen when you wanted to be a healer is your teacher would give you energetic practices to do to see if you could feel the energy in your own body. And then he would ask you questions to see if you had realized and been able to sense the energy in your own body? And if you couldn’t, then you were out? Because how could you be trusted with somebody else’s energetic body? If you didn’t even feel you’re out? Mm hmm. So and so it’s a thought that essentially, needles came along. because there weren’t enough people who were tuned in energetically enough to do the work that some people needed that extra stimulation with a needle into the pump. Because you have to think about what did they do before they had the metallurgy to make needles or you know, that they use these things called Beyond stones, which are like, very thin, pointed stones, where they, they use stone, basically kind of stone needles, and there’s some question as to whether they actually penetrated or just use pressure. But I think after, you know, after years of meditation and doing internal work, and really kind of tuning into the energy, I had this thought of, well, why why would I light up, you know, one point with a needle when I could possibly light up the whole channel and just balanced the whole channel. Hmm. So if, if, if I’m doing acupuncture traditionally, then I look at my diagnosis, I look at the signs and symptoms and then I pick the acupressure I’m sure meridians for my my prescription my point prescription, and I pick according to my diagnosis, the medical prescription, that herbal prescription. And then we do all of that. And the way that I know that it’s working is if your symptoms change, right. So what I say is I’m putting these needles in and they’re going to balance your lung channel, they’re going to balance your your stomach channel. But I don’t really know until there’s a secondary response. And you tell me that something got better.

So when I plug in energetically, and typically what I’ll do is have somebody on the on the table, and I’ll plug into the bottoms of their feet or their ankles, I’ll feel the the energy move into the patient, and they will typically feel an energetic sensation, start at their feet, and then move up to the top of their head, arms, legs, everything in between. So once I get a general sense of the energy in the body, then if say they’re having trouble with anger and resentment, I’ll plug into the liver channel. And they will actually feel that line, go up the inside of the leg. And so my thought is, if you don’t feel it, it didn’t happen. So it has to be a visceral sensation. Or a lot of times PE patients will try to they’ll try to say what you want to hear. Oh, well, no, I think I feel it. I think it No, I think so. So if you say I think then that’s a no, when you actually feel it, you feel it. So then that meridian will come up. And then once the meridians on both sides show up, then I’ll ask that patient, does the left side feel equal to the right side? When they tell me Yes, then I know it’s balanced because it’s the patient’s perception. Hmm, it’s not just Well, the needle says so it must be. I actually did an experiment with that where I did the needle strike, I checked somebodies energetic system. I did the needles, and it was more balanced. But it was in no way fully balanced. And it wasn’t really balanced all the way to the organ. So when it when the two sides balanced, then the organ itself will light up. And it’s interesting people go, I never knew what my liver felt like before. So they’ll actually have a sense of their liver. And they’ll tell me something like, well, I’ll say, Well, what does it feel like? Well, it feels hot and heavy. Okay, well let me know when it feels lighter. And when it’s cooled down. And so when the patient tells me, okay, the it feels it feels good. It feels warm, it feels full. Does it does it everything feel balanced? Yes. Then I know. And the patient knows that it is bounce?

Brian Smith 22:41
Yeah. Yeah, it’s, yeah, it’s interesting, because we again, we think about acupuncture, we think about needles, right? And right. Again, I think people go, Well, does this work? Because we want to know, how does it work? How does sticking a needle, in my hand, affect my liver?

R Scott Malone 22:57
Right?

Brian Smith 22:58
what’s what’s the mechanism? You know, how is this working? But it’s all it’s all. But what I’m learning over the years that I’ve been, you know, study or just living studying life, is that that’s all energy. And, you know, it’s so I talk to people that do Reiki and people do, you know, all the, we call it all these different things, but it’s all manipulated. But we have again, we have this reliance here on on, I gotta do something physical. And I think it’s interesting, because when we take pills, when we trust the pills work, we have no idea how they really work most most of the medications we take, we do not know the mechanism. And I don’t think most people know this. They think that they study and they’re like, I’m going to produce this pill that’s going to react, we don’t we just tried things. Like take this and see what it does. Oh, yeah, that one works. So then we produce more of those.

R Scott Malone 23:47
Yeah. Or they’ll be using a drug for one thing, and they’ll go, Oh, well, we noticed this beneficial side effect that so we’re actually going to use it for the heart now instead of you know, like erectile dysfunction, or whatever it is, you know, yeah. Yes.

Brian Smith 23:59
So all these things, you know, so we have this now we question things like acupuncture, which you said, it’s like, well, people have been doing it for 1000s of years. And yeah, and and it’s they do it, they’ve been continuing to do it, because obviously, it does work.

R Scott Malone 24:15
Well, and I think it’s interesting, too. I hear this sometimes where, you know, like, I like Reddit, and I’m a victim of doom scrolling, you know, occasionally. So, um, and you’ll hear people say, Oh, well, it’s some crazy herbal medicine thing. And it always blows my mind because herbal medicine is the first medicine. It’s, it’s the oldest medicine and half of the things that that we have as medicine now came because somebody decided to isolate some part of an herbal plant that seemed to do this thing. Right. So I just think that’s I think it’s interesting in a from a Chinese TCM, traditional Chinese medicine perspective. All medicines are toxic to the liver just in varying degrees. Yeah, so to assert, to a certain extent, you have aspirin, which is relatively baby aspirin, which is relatively benign. But essentially, it’s still slightly toxic to the liver all the way up to chemo, which is amazingly toxic to the liver. And the reason is, is because they’re not natural substances, and the body doesn’t recognize them as food. So the body recognizes herbs as food. Now, it’s, it’s dangerous to take a bunch of herbs that you don’t really know what they do. You know, I don’t think, you know, watching dr. oz and saying I should take a whole bunch of this, you know, because, you know, it seems like a good idea. You know, and he would probably even even, you know, he would offer some sort of idea of dosage or something. But people in the West are sort of like, well, more is better is better. Yeah. It’s just not, it’s just not. Yeah, I

Brian Smith 25:53
remember I talked to someone about homeopathy. And yeah, micro micro micro doses of things that are quote, poisonous, but everything’s poisonous to certain extent we drink too much water, you’ll die. Yeah, but you. You take homeopathy and say, we’ll take this and then you’re gonna wait, I’m going to paint it and then or teacher and make it and we can’t do anything. I need more.

R Scott Malone 26:16
Right? Well, here’s the thing. If you don’t recognize the energetic body, then homeopathy is is quackery.

Brian Smith 26:24
Exactly.

R Scott Malone 26:25
But look at I actually was curious about homeopathy. And it’s a whole nother study that I just didn’t have the bandwidth to jump into. Although I have utilized it on occasion. But you look at how many people in India utilize homeopathy? How many people in Europe utilize homeopathy? There’s millions and millions of people worldwide that utilize homeopathy and is recognized by the government’s Yeah, you know, it’s just in the West. If it you know, if it didn’t come from Big Pharma? Well, then, you know, and and that’s a whole that’s a whole other thing, right? Big Pharma versus homeopathy versus herbal medicine, you know?

Brian Smith 27:06
Yeah, just to let people know, who might not know we’re talking about regardless thing about homeopathy, it’s taking a substance and using a very, very minute portion of it like you, you dilute it with water, like 10,000 times or something. And so it’s really more. So again, my, when someone was explaining to me, my Western mind was, well, that’s not enough to do anything. But it’s working on an energetic level more like, you know, what you’re talking about. And again, with, with the drugs that we take, that we put so much faith in,

R Scott Malone 27:33
we don’t know exactly how they work, either. So that’s often a chemical shotgun approach to something that needs a finer touch. Yeah, you know, we’ll do a broad spectrum, which means we’re doing a broad spectrum, because we’re hoping that somewhere in this, you know, will affect what we’re actually what we’re actually looking to fix. Yeah. And that’s why I think it’s interesting Chinese medicine. You never, you never diagnose herbs without a prescription without a diagnosis. If you look at migraines, or you look at headaches, there’s half a dozen different kinds of headaches, you know, if you, if you have it across the top here, you know, that’s, that’s a stomach headache. If it’s dull, your stomach is weak, if it’s dull, top, your liver is weak, if it’s pounding, and you have a typical migraine with photophobia, and all that, it’s a gallbladder headache. I mean, there’s so you can’t give the same, the same herbal formula for all headaches. And that’s why I think, you know, Chinese medicine, Chinese herbology. And, and a lot of Western or biology or biology practitioners, it’s very directed, because they understand the function of the herbs and how they affect the bottom.

Brian Smith 28:46
Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

R Scott Malone 28:49
Go crazy, that stuff can’t work. And the other thing

Brian Smith 28:53
that that we talked about, you know, you went with acupuncture, for example, and this energy work that you do is, you know, you said that typical person might say, Well, my shoulder hurts, or I’m having headaches coming in for something physical, but it can be useful for much more than that. And what I want to get back to specifically you mentioned grief, you know, people that are going through grief. So how can, how can acupuncture help with somebody that’s dealing with grief.

R Scott Malone 29:17
So, so I’ve actually, I used to have tried to incorporate a lot of the sort of energetic stuff that’s a little on the Qigong spiritual side into my acupuncture practice. And so I’ve really decided recently to kind of split those into two different websites, like you mentioned, because I think a lot of people coming in for just a physiological issue. They don’t really and because they’re very sort of Western medically oriented, if I start talking to them about Qigong and energy, then they find someplace else to be. They just want a guy in a white coat to stick needles in them and then there is a thing you know, medic Western medical acupuncture, and it works So I tend to what I actually find is that when somebody comes in for a particular physical symptom, probably about half the time, that’s not really why they came in, there’s something deeper underlying it. And what it comes down to is does the person want to do they want to address that deeper issue. Because you know, things don’t happen in a vacuum. And it’s usually not just one thing, there’s usually a host of other things that are conspiring to cause this one symptom. So from an energetic perspective, from from a, from a straight needle acupuncture perspective, you can put needles into certain points to sort of activates that the lung and the large intestine for grief and for letting go. So from a straight mechanical acupuncture perspective, it actually it works really well you have, you know, right off the bone here, there’s a lung seven. And then there’s another point inside your arm, lung 10, these these things will help clear large intestine 11 will help you let go of things. So that does work. But what I’ve found is if I if I plug into the patient’s and basically the feel of the room changes, right and now we start talking about

Announcer 31:25
people dropping into a deeper, a deeper state, a deeper state of consciousness. We’ll get back to grief to growth in just a few seconds. Did you know that Brian is an author and a life coach, if you’re grieving or know someone who is grieving his book, grief to growth is a best selling easy to read book that might help you or someone you know, people work with Brian as a life coach to break through barriers and live their best lives. You can find out more about Brian and what he offers at WWW dot grief to growth.com www dot g ri e f, the number two, gr o w th comm or text growth gr o w t h 231996. If you’d like to support this podcast, visit www.patreon.com slash grief to growth www.patreon.com slash g ri e f the number two gr o w th to make a financial contribution. And now back to grief to growth.

R Scott Malone 32:31
And in this deeper state of consciousness, often you will have people who have helpers, you know the Native American and talk about spirit helpers and gods. So in that state of consciousness that person’s helpers will sometimes show up. And sometimes their evidence to that person. I remember the first time I ran into this, I was actually in acupuncture school. And we had this big building. And they had the rooms were divided by sheets. So we had all these sheet bolts. And I had this woman can’t come in. And she I forget what she was being treated for. I think it was her knee or something. And so I put the needles in and the standard way is you put the needles in, you take a walk, you come back and check on the patient. And a lot of times acupuncturist will see, you know, two and three patients in the same out. So I took a walk, I come back and she’s got tears just streaming down her face. And I’m thinking, oh my god, I put something because I’m a student I put something in wrong. She’s been in pain. And she’s just been here crying for the last 1520 minutes. So I asked her I was like, what’s going on? Is everything okay? And she said, Well, she said, You know, my mom died. And she said, and we were angry at each other when she died. And so I was laying here and I had my mom, my eyes closed and my mom was floating over the top of me. And, and so I had this conversation with my mom and she said, you know, Honey, I’m not I’m not mad at you. You know, I love you How can I do anything but love you? And and she’s just they’re just streaming down her face? And she goes, Is that normal? Like, yeah, absolutely. It happens all the time. You know, but, but that was the first time I really got like, there’s something there’s something else to this beyond the bio physiological effect. I mean, they found that, you know, the meridian system actually lives in the fascia. So it’s an actual structure in the fascia that moves faster than the nervous system.

Brian Smith 34:45
There’s a lot of talk lately about the fascia. Yeah,

R Scott Malone 34:47
yeah. Well, so, so that was kind of, you know, I’ve always been, you know, interested in you know, meditation and meditative states and states of consciousness and awakening. And all of that, and I just started, you know, it started off, I was working on somebody, and I was I was, you know, trying to light up these channels and myself, and it was really difficult. And I thought, well, maybe I’ll just work on other people and get a better handle on it. And so I started lighting up the channels and other people. And then I started looking at, there’s a certain, there’s a certain level of balance that the body will will go to as a constitutional base. So their energetic body will and their physiological body will tend to balance first. But after a basic sense of pre flow and balance in the body occurs, that’s when things really start to get interesting. And that’s when people start to, they start to have experiences that are beyond, I’m here for my health. And sometimes I wait, you know, because I spend an hour, sometimes an hour and a half with a patient, you know, in a in a meditative state, and while they’re dropping into a meditative state, and then interesting, things will start to happen. And, you know, I have one patient and her father passed away. And I really felt his presence in the room. And she was really suffering because it was relatively recent. And so I just really, I just really sort of called him in as as much more as he was already there, whatever I could do to help his presence help her. And again, she had this, she had this sort of, and I think it was mostly unconscious, but some sort of communication with her father. And then it shifted. And it’s interesting, because sometimes I sometimes I have a sense of who’s in the room, and sometimes I don’t, but the most surprising one was, um, you know, I think we mentioned before I was telling you about, you know, the, the Baptist Church and how that kind of, I had an issue with that as a child, because they scared me. Um, so I’ve never really been terribly Christian oriented until I found Thomas Merton, and St. JOHN of the cross, and Teresa viola, and then that sort of shifted things

Brian Smith 37:16
up for a second talk about that, because we talked about that before we got on the air. So let people know about that. Because I think that’s a fascinating part of your background.

R Scott Malone 37:23
Okay, um, I’ll just finish this little bit, because it was so funny to me. So I’ve always been, you know, I’m like, a, I’d like the most Asian white guy you’ll ever meet, you know. So, um, so I’m working with this patient. And I’ve always been drawn to, you know, Tibetan Buddhism and the Hindu, you know, pantheon of faces of God and all of this. And I’m sitting here with this woman. And I have this sense that Jesus is there. And I was so shocked. In my mind, I went, Jesus Christ, what the hell are you doing here? And then I was like, oh, oh, I was like, I’m so sorry. I was, I was really just kind of shot. And, and he did the most Jesus thing. And he was like, Oh, no, no, it’s fine. I’m here for her. Not for you. I was like, Okay. Apologies. Carry on. So it’s just, it’s just interesting, because different, different folks show up for different people. It doesn’t have anything to do with me. So everybody has sort of helped along the way. Yeah. So um, oh, so we were talking about when my parents, my dad was a chiropractor. He ended up in this little town called senatobia, Mississippi, as a chiropractor, and nobody knew what that was. And so actually, one guy showed up in his office and said, Hey, I’d like you to come out. And it was a farming community. I’d like you to check over my cats. And he was like, What do you mean? He’s like, why here your cow cracker? So he was like, no, it’s so. So we had to do a lot of education. And one of the ways you integrate yourself into a town as you go to the church, and so he went to the Baptist Church. And once once we were old enough, then my older sister and I, he would take us to, to the church with him and mom. And so I remember this one day, they took me to where all the kids were. And they they had a picture of a boat. And there were two giraffes whose heads were sticking out. But then they had this long line of animals headed to the boat. And I remember as a kid thinking, there’s no way they’re all gonna fit. There’s just no way it’s not gonna happen. So I remember thinking, I wish I wish I could, you know, hear what the big people are talking about, you know, what are the adults talking about? So, they finished that story and they took us back in. And I remember this guy. His face was ready with Mississippians This summer, no air conditioning small one room, you know, Baptist Church. And this guy is red in the face and he’s yelling, and I’m sitting down. And he’s he starts talking about how we’re all sinners, and we’re all going to hell. And he started talking about a pool of fire where you, you burn but you never die. And as a kid, I remember thinking that the punishment didn’t justify the crime. Yeah. Because I was thinking, you know, I’ve stolen some cookies. I you know, and I knew it was wrong, but I, you know, they’re cookies, so I did it. But I didn’t think that it deserved burning eternally for it. So I asked my parents not to Don’t take me back because it scared me. And so my dad had always had some questions about religion. And so he, he went to the preacher for a private, you know, a private talk, and you start asking him questions, and he said, you know, well, you know, what happens? You know, if a child dies before, before it’s baptized, well, that baby goes to hell. It’s like, Alright, well, what about all the people in you know, in far countries that, that don’t either don’t know about Jesus or don’t, don’t worship? And he’s like, well, all those people are going to hell. And I think the, the straw that broke the camel’s back, as he said, you know, well, what, what about all the people who lived and died before Jesus? Well, all those people are burning forever in hell. And my dad asked him one other question, the guy just kicked him out. He said, Get out, you know, maybe if your faith was better, or something like that. And so my dad started looking, and, um, because he had questions that were not being not being answered. And so he came across a guy named Roy Eugene Davis and Roy Eugene Davis was Parma Honza, Yogananda was a primary chief disciple in the United States. And he was initiated into Kriya Yoga, by Roy Eugene Davis. And in Yogananda, his famous book Autobiography of a Yogi

was, it was huge, and that that book changed my life. And it was a very early reader. And I remember my dad leaving, and he was saying, you know, my books are in here, you know, you have your books in your room, but my books are in here. So don’t, you know, just don’t mess with my books. And, and so of course, I had to. And so I remember reading Autobiography of a Yogi. And I remember thinking, well, it’s just true. Like, I like as a kid, I remember thinking, this is this is somebody who is touched by God. This is somebody who God is working through. And, and so all the stories of the saints and the miracles in that book just absolutely deeply touched me. And, oddly enough, they didn’t scare the crap out of me in the process. So yeah, so I think that was kind of the that was kind of the take off point for me. And, you know, I was never, like my heroes, you know, my heroes, like the people that I looked up to, they ended up all being Hindu saints. You know, so I just, that was kind of my initial walk into the spiritual world was, you know, that sort of that just that Eastern path through India, and I remember, I was really frustrated. And I asked my dad, I said, you know, well, you know, these people are Christian. I was like, Well, what are what are we, huh? And my dad said, Well, you know, your mom and I believe this way. But you will figure it out. And you’ll note when you find it. At the time, I was just super, I thought, well, that’s a crappy answer. Like that’s, that’s the non answer. But it was actually, it was a huge, huge gift. Because I did I was I was never satisfied. So I just, I just kept looking that way. There’s a there’s a couple. I’m sorry. Go ahead.

Brian Smith 44:09
No, go ahead. Go on.

R Scott Malone 44:10
There was a couple of interesting stories that I wanted to tell about my dad in practice. And he said that there was this woman came into the clinic. And he said she was she was white as it goes. And he said, you know, Miss Jones, he said, I haven’t I haven’t seen you. And in months, he said, How are you doing? She said, Well, I’m fine. And he said, Well, you know, well, what brings you in? And she said, Well, you told me to come in. And he said, What do you mean? She said I was asleep in my bed. And I opened my eyes and I could see through you and you were standing at the foot of my bed. And you said that I needed to come in. And so here I am. So he had some interesting experience. periences like that he had another patient that we use this old mimeograph to make flyers and pass them out around the town. And he said that this patient came in and he said, So what brings you in? He’s like your damn flyers. And he’s like, well, was it someplace that wasn’t supposed to be? And he said, No, but I was walking down the street, the same flyer blew up into my face three times. So I looked at it, I was like, I guess I need to come see this guy. And then I think the one of the greatest stories I ever heard was, he had this this old farmer on his table. And he just lowered the table down. And he said, he heard he heard his death rattle. And his bowels evacuated. And he said, Nobody dies in my clinic. Hmm. And he said, I went over and I did a toggle recoil to the, to the Atlas. And he said, and when I did it right before it happened, he said, it felt like, like, all the hairs on my arm stood up, and there was a charge in the room. And when I dropped the adjustment on to his neck, all that energy was transferred any coughed. And, and and woke up. No. Wow. I just thought that was I just thought that was super, super interesting. That there is something there is a power beyond those that can work through us. Yeah.

Brian Smith 46:34
Yeah. You know, Scott, we remember you. We talked earlier, you were talking about your experience with the Baptist Church, and I was raised in the Pentecostal church. And

Unknown Speaker 46:42
so I had one second.

Brian Smith 46:45
So yeah, it’s got a little technical difficulty there. But we’re back. Um, yeah, you were talking about the Baptist Church and how it affected you. And I was I was raised in the Pentecostal church. And it was a similar experience. It’s, I think it’s interesting. Some people hear these stories about, you know, the burning in hell, and it doesn’t bother them. And they just they can accept it like that preacher. Right? It’s like, Oh, yeah, they’re in hell. Oh, they’re in hell there now. Yeah, I think most people don’t have any any concept of what it means to burn internally. Anybody just be so cavalier about the fact that anybody is burning internally and let alone the vast majority of humanity. Yeah. So for myself, I was kind of the same way as you and I actually said, my facebook profile. I’m like, I was, you know, born a Christian, because technically, I pretty much was no one’s born a Christian, but I was raised in the church. But then when I discovered Eastern religions, I was really drawn to the, I think, a lot of deep truth in that. But now, you know, it’s funny, I had a while I’m going to tell you the story no one has ever heard before. But I had a reading with a medium just last week. And my grandmother came through my grandmother was very religious and stuff. And she said, You’re doing great things. Everything is great. But don’t forget, like where you came from. Don’t forget the your foundation. And it’s funny to tell that story about Jesus because Jesus keeps coming up over and over again. And I interviewed a guy yesterday. Jewish guy, Orthodox Jew, had a near death experience at the ages three, and he said Jesus was there. And you hear when people say, oh, near death experiences, just wishful thinking. It’s just cultural conditioning. Well, this was right next to the last person he expected to see. Right, Jesus. So I think there’s something today when you so when you talked about earlier, you’re you’re in this room, and Jesus shows up. I mean, I think it’s pretty wild, because

R Scott Malone 48:35
I was so stunned. That’s why I was thinking, there’s something to this because I’m absolutely I’m absolutely stunned. Yeah, last thing I expected, I had another woman and she said that while she was on the table, Mary came to her and spoke to her. And I have to say, I had a, I had a pretty hard negative view of Christianity. Until when I was in acupuncture school. Um, there was a woman there and she was having her baby Christian. Christian baptized, I’m not sure. Um, so we went to this church and, and I know it wasn’t a Catholic Church, because the catholic church they in the Eastern Orthodox, they have the, the regalia is perfect, right? They look, it’s just awe inspiring, just to be there. And so it was some other form of a church and I remember the the guy came in and he had a stole on and in this really, like, terrible 70s green it said, holy, holy, holy on it. And I just remember thinking, this guy is like the used car salesman of of preachers. And so he gave, he gave a short talk, and then he brought the baby up. And so I was still thinking, you know, why am I wasting my Saturday here, and he brought the baby up. And there was A golden Chalice that had some oil in it. And this baby is not having it, this baby is done and been done. And it’s just writhing and he’s trying to wrestle this baby. And, and so I see him drop his two fingers into the oil. And then he looks up, and he holds his fingers up. I saw this clear beam of light come from above and attached to his fingers. And then when he touched it onto the baby’s forehead, the baby immediately settled. And the beam was now attached to the baby’s forehead. Hmm. I was thinking, Okay, maybe maybe it is everywhere. It just depends on the person. You know, it just depends on the preacher or the person and because I had already recognized that well, there are there awake people, their holy people in all traditions, but I’ve been really holding out because I had such a bad experience. And this one guy, you know, he changed all that. I was like, Okay, he’s, he’s to be able to do that. He’s tuned into the to the infinite. He’s tuned into the divine.

Brian Smith 51:13
Yeah, yeah. Yeah, in your right, we can sometimes because I think especially when we grew up in a tradition, we can see the flaws in it. And then we can become overly critical of Yeah, and I, you know, I’m coming back to you know, I quote the Bible to people all the time, because I was raised in that because there’s Yeah, there’s so much good stuff in the Bible, even there’s a lot of bad stuff, there’s, you know, there was it was corrupted, for sure is polluted. But there’s so much there’s so much good stuff in there. And, you know, we don’t we should not throw out the baby with the bathwater. And, and when we hear about these experiences with Jesus, you know, this guy, he had a beautiful quote in his book about how Jesus is basically the highest representation of what man can be. And he’s always with us of all time, and blah, blah, blah. And I’m like, this is what Christians should be saying about Jesus never taught this church, this from a guy who’s an Orthodox Jew.

R Scott Malone 52:08
Well, when you’re moved, you’re moved. And and it doesn’t and it at a certain point, if you’re so stubborn, that when something overwhelming presents itself to you, and you still turn your face away, then you’re just being an ass. You’re just being stubborn. Yeah. You know.

Brian Smith 52:25
So we, you know, we were talking earlier, before we got started, you you’d mentioned and I want you to tell this part about the guy that was using DMT, which is it’s a natural occurrence occurring substance that to develop people. Now, before we before you answer, it’s a naturally occurring substance. But if we take it kind of opens us up to other realms. So go ahead and tell us about that.

R Scott Malone 52:45
I want to find the guy’s name, it was something like

Unknown Speaker 52:51
he wrote a book,

R Scott Malone 52:55
field of diamonds, maybe he’s a, he’s a PhD. I forget his name. But his one of his book is something of diamonds like feel the diamonds or something like that. But essentially, he has a, he has a lot of things on YouTube and Vimeo, I wish I had his name for it. But he essentially did a number of tests a number of experiments with DMT, again, and again and again. And it was, I think it was DMT. And not LSD, but I could be mistaken. But he essentially did this over a number of years. And he just kept going farther and farther and deeper and deeper into the experience. And he had, um, beings that would show up and talk to him and guide him and show him what was coming and show him like the grand scheme of humanity over, you know, a million years or something like that. And he said that the last, he realized he just couldn’t do it anymore. Because the pain of leaving these rarefied realms, these heavenly realms, and coming back was just too great. And he just, he knew that he just, he just couldn’t do it anymore. If he, you know, expected to live the rest of his life.

Brian Smith 54:13
Yeah, is a human being. Yeah. That’s fascinating. You told me that because we were talking earlier, you said, you know, I’ve interviewed somebody near death experiences. And we talked to Yeah, some of the side effects of near death experience. And one of them is a lot of times people have trouble coming back and living on this planet. So you know, I wonder, you know, because people say Sometimes I wish I could have a near death experience. I wish I got a near death experience. And it’s difficult sometimes to integrate that spirit experience to come back and be just be human. Yeah. And then the thing I also wanted to connection with the draw because DMT is a plant medicine or LSD with the guy who may have been using something called Iosco. These plant medicines seem to open us up to other realms, but there are other ways to reach these things true to yester Meditation and through the experiences that you’ve had in this energetic thing. And my personal belief is the brain is a filter. And the brain has been evolved to just show us what’s important to show us a saber toothed Tiger that’s running at us. Yeah, and we don’t see everything that’s going on around us. But if we can somehow lower that filter a little bit through some of these experiences from these medicines, or energetic states, we can start to open up to these different realms

R Scott Malone 55:27
in the in the Dallas perspective, that the filter is actually the upper chakra, the pineal gland. And it’s interesting, and I’m just going to mention this, a lot of people, when they talk about the Third Eye Center, they kind of put it forward in their head here. But it’s actually if you if you go a little bit back, behind your ear lobe, diagonally, it’s actually on top of the spine, so straight up from your spine, up into the brain, when it moves forward towards the front, it hits the pituitary, and a lot of people try to access the third eye in the mid part of their brain, not necessarily the midbrain, but in the middle part of their brain. And that’s actually the pituitary. So they’re missing, it’s usually farther back, but it opens up to here. And then onto the sides. I’ve had patients say that when it opened, it felt like there was actually a whole band of eyes around. But the upper Don tn is, is seen as a filter. And it’s a filter of all the information from all the other rounds. So from the beings around us, there are some people I know a woman named storm, and she sees all the beings around somebody, and she’s done it ever since she was a kid. And, you know, she would be talking to, you know, her friends. And then she talked to a kid that she called bet neck Jimmy and people looked at her like she was crazy. And they were like, what? And she’s like, Who are you talking to? And they’re like, well, I’m talking to bet neck Jimmy, and, you know, come to find out he was a kid who had broken his neck in the area, you know, 40 years before so. So that’s a filter. And, and I think there’s a, there’s a real sort of caution with working with the filter and till the lower bodies are fully integrated till especially the heart center, and that lower energetic center, or fully integrated, hmm. Because we have a tendency to want to check out and away so people couldn’t could see. And to me, I think it’s probably the danger of really advanced VR or something where people want to live in these fantasy worlds, and not live here and now. But if you’re not really rooted and grounded, there can be a tendency to want to live in these, these sort of transcendent realms. And so that filter keeps you from seeing probably all the spirits that are around and the animal spirits and who knows what else from whatever, whatever realm is around you. And drugs can i think if i think if the ethnic ends are used in the proper context, I think if they’re used in a context, that’s, that’s culturally proven, for spiritual reason, I think that you have and typically, those things are run by a shaman and the medicine man in any tradition, whenever something is going on. He’s the guy that protects everybody and everybody’s experience. So so he’s the guy that sort of puts the shield up around everyone to make sure everyone’s okay. So if you, you know, find yourself, you know, with a bunch of pod and you decide to go out into the desert, and, you know, it might be okay, but it might blow those, those filters open. Right. And I think that’s where you have some people who were, you know, who were in institutions, because they blew those filters open and they and they couldn’t get back. Like, if you look at Alex gray, the guy that does all that, that really interesting art where the chakras and the body Have you seen him? Um, he you’d probably recognize the picture but he shows all the energetic bodies and and he said that he did so many hallucinogens, that he almost didn’t make it back in it, and it took him years to integrate from coming back. So I just think those are useful

Brian Smith 59:22
in the proper context. And there’s, there’s a parallel there to the near death experience, because they they get blown open, and they sometimes are really trouble integrating. And, you know, I every time I interview almost every time we interview a near death experience, when they mess up the electronics, we have a connection. They can’t we’re not they might wear the watch anymore, but they have to constantly buy cell phones and the computers are always messed up. Yeah. And a lot of sometimes they’re like, you know, like we were saying earlier, it’s like, I don’t know if I want to go through all the crap we have to go through here. Because I just want to I want to escape. So I think that my filter is there for a reason. And sometimes it’s maybe good peak, you know, get a little peek. So we can, you know, yeah, remember who we are and when we start to get to down and too much into this, but and I want to ask this to you because this is why I say to people all the time, I think as human beings, we have to, we have to be grounded. And we have to be able to connect with this however, and we’ve got to be balanced between the between those, we’ve got to figure out what I’m too far down in this. I get too caught up in the day to day, I need to be able to get to that higher perspective. Yeah, but I can’t live there.

R Scott Malone 1:00:29
You know, there’s a great story I love um, Rabbi David Cooper, he wrote a great book called God is a God as a verb. But he wrote another book about retreat called silence, simplicity and solitude. And he said that he was at Big Sur, somewhere out in California. And he he’s a, he’s all about retreat, 40 day retreats, because that’s, you know, it’s in the Torah. And so, so he goes out, and he has this 40 day retreat, and he’s praying every day, meditating every day. He packs up all this stuff, and he’s coming back down from the retreat, putt. And there’s all this sounds going on. There’s all this drumming going on. And so the rainbow people were having a thing down there. So he goes, and he just joins, he hasn’t seen another human being for 40 days. So he says he sits down next to the sky on this log around a fire and they start talking. And he said, they were talking about this amazingly deep, spiritual level. And he said, at a certain point, he realized that the only way this guy was able to speak to him this way was because he was on mescaline. And he said, it made him very sad, because he realized that his experience was he was integrated into his body, his experience was his own, and he would not lose that. But this guy in, you know, six or eight hours, was going to lose all touch with that. Yeah, so I think I think from a, this is something that that will speak directly to your question. So when I was first working on people, I was really interested in Kundalini in the chakras. And so all the energy going up going up. And I’ve actually, I’ve actually figured out a way energetically to basically clear the pathway. So that if a person is ready, that will happen. unimpaired, right, so people run into trouble, when that Kundalini lets go if they have something stuck here or here in their head, and the energy bangs up against it, and and then there’s a burning, oftentimes, they’re short circuiting that happens. So if you clear that pathway out, then when the Kundalini ignites of its own volition, then it’s, then it’s a straight, a straight shot out. So when I was working with this, I found the seven chakras in the body. And then I also use a couple of in the Sufi tradition, there are three heart chakras. So there’s the one in the center, the one on the right is the spiritual longing. The one on the left is physical longing and love. And there are basically aspects of the same the same center. So So when I’m working with this, I was wondering will, what about up above, so I had a person whose crown opened up, and then they felt themselves rise up above their head to another place. And so there was another chakra or donchian above the body. And so what I found in doing this was I went up for shoppers above the body. And people tend to have a oftentimes a similar experience. At the fourth center above the body, there’s a people experience, the color, gold, and some sort of beautiful their ideal natural setting. And I had one guy who was a Christian who said that that was where Jesus spoke to him.

And so I was thinking about these these chakras up above the body. And then it occurred to me I was like, well, this seems very imbalanced, like why would there be chakras above the body and not below the body? And so I started, I started to I had one friend of mine who’s just recently passed Brian earnest, who helped me a real psychonaut, you really had a facility for the states of consciousness. And we basically went up for and then we went through the chakras to the root, and then we went down below. And so what I’ve ultimately found is seven centers above the body. And I wonder about this, like, Is there a seven the number is there? 12. Is there 100? Is there an infinite number? I think what’s happening is I’m recognizing in a way that I can understand. So it doesn’t mean that it’s true across the board that there are seven and people get hung up. There might be an infinite number. But at seven, it seemed to interface with infinity, whatever that means. And so when somebody goes into that seven center up above Oftentimes they have an experience. And then there’s a cascade of energy that pours down through the body. And once that cascade starts, it never stops. And then when it hits the root, then it moves down, and it will move down seven. And then somebody will have an experience down below. And then there’s another cascade of energy that pours up through the descending cascade. So you have the infinite below, pouring up through the body, and the infinite above, pouring down through the body. And I realized that they’re, they’re the same thing. And it basically becomes a pillar that moves in both directions from from every place. And I call that the infinite pillar. Hmm, interesting. Yeah. And after a certain point, what happens is those energies converge into the heart. And then what happens is, they connect out into the world. And so if you just have this, I’m always I’m always transcendence, then you have nothing to do with the world. If you’re very much in the body, and you’re very imminent, and you’re really just interested in the physical world and all that, then nothing comes out into the world, what we’re here to do is an offer to the world. So when we have that rooted balance into the earth, we are here, you know, get over it. And believe it we are here. But we’re also, we’re also in tune with this, this infinite above us as well, then we can actually ground more of that, to move out into the world in the Chinese, they say tn Ren de Heaven, man and earth. And what it means in a pithy way is man walks between heaven and earth. Yeah. But in a deeper way, what it means is, are a part of our function is to be conduits for the heavenly cheat to come down into the earth. When y’all reaches its apex, it turns into yen, and for the earthly CHEA to rise into the habits. When yen reaches its Nadir, it rises to its opposite. And what I found is, once it once that’s really set, and people have this really connection between heaven and earth, that often and just about every time it will converge in the heart, and they will have a sense of all of creation. Hmm. And it’s and it’s from here, it’s a sense of love. And then people tend to start to get about doing whatever their work is.

Brian Smith 1:07:30
Yeah. That’s beautiful. That’s beautiful. I love the way that you said that. I think that’s, that’s so that’s, that’s what I’m trying to say, in a very, not quite as articulate away. But yeah, it’s that it’s that balance that we need to have an energy flow between the heavens and the earth. And we have to be both at the same time. That’s sometimes why it’s so difficult being a human is yes, it’s finding that balance and not getting so caught up in the day to day stuff, but also not trying to escape it, you know, and that, well, everything’s good. It doesn’t matter what I do. And I know people I know, quote, spiritual people that say, this domain drives me crazy. It’s like, No, you shouldn’t be involved in the day to day stuff. Don’t worry about it. It’s all good. You know? Yeah, whatever happens is supposed to happen. No, we’re not here for that.

R Scott Malone 1:08:15
Yeah. If you’re not engaged in the world, well, then then really, what do you what you have is a selfish spirituality. And I think Chung yong trumper wrote a great book called cutting through spiritual materialism. Yes, that like spirituality. That’s just for me, just to save me just to end my suffering. Ultimately, it’s been hijacked by your ego. Yeah, you find and to me, I think that the measure of a man is the depth of his heart.

Brian Smith 1:08:42
Yeah. And frankly, I think that’s one of the problems with the way some people when they can say everybody has interpreted Christianity, it’s all become an individual salvation. What can I What can I get me? And that’s what we need to have that balance between that and the eastern which is it’s about the collective. Yeah, what what can I do for the world? I’m part of the cheetah. Yeah, I’m part of the team. I’m here. I’m not here for me, I’m here for you. I’m here for everybody else. And we got to beat we have to do both. We got to take care of ourselves and take care of the world same time.

R Scott Malone 1:09:15
Oh, I said, a friend of mine said because it because I’ve always been like, I’m gonna do it by myself, you know, and, and we’re all standing on the shoulders of giants, you know, wave after wave of humanity is, you know, brought us to where we are and all the spiritual teachers who have you know, Britain things, but and so I was very much in that I’m gonna do it alone. And my my buddy goes, he goes, you know, if we were meant to do it alone, there wouldn’t be billions of us. It just be you. Like, fine, but I do I just find there’s so much help. There’s so much there’s so many people that are just selflessly giving. You know, that nobody would get anywhere with without all of us and I love Tick, not Han has this one. And I haven’t read a bunch of his but this one, this one little speech that he did always, always touch me. He’s like, I love to do the dishes. And so he’s like, a lot of people hate to do the dishes, but I love to do the dishes. And essentially, while he’s doing the dishes for food, he’s thinking about the people that made the dishes. And he’s thinking about the people that raised the food and the people that transported the food, and the people that stored the food and the people that put it on the shelves. And he’s thinking about the whole chain of humanity that brought him to this place doing the dishes. Yeah. You know, and I think that’s where in the West, we that, that Western individualism is, it’s the it’s that darkness, the shadow side of it is it’s all me and not us.

Brian Smith 1:10:50
Yeah, well, you know, and I love that the practice of doing the dishes or when you when you eat, you know, the think about where the food came from, and the truck driver that drove it. Now, it’s a bag that will make you humble real fast, and look around to pick up any object on your desk. And think about where it actually came from and what it took to bring that together, the person that created that, that put that out into the world. So it was a great practices. And I think, you know, I’m glad to see that people in the West are opening up to some of these ways of the East, I think we can learn quite a bit from it. And I think we’re as a society, we’re kind of sick because of our individualism.

R Scott Malone 1:11:27
Yeah, I think it’s true. I think it’s true. I mean, you look at, you know, people in Norway and something goes on, they’re like, well, we’re all Norwegian,

Unknown Speaker 1:11:35
you know, the

R Scott Malone 1:11:36
French, well, we’re all French. So, you know, and here, it’s like, oh, well, I’m an Irish American, and that’s an Asian American, and, you know, the Asian Americans need trouble, well, then that’s their problem. And it’s just not true. We’re all we’re all here. And it’s just the the overall, we’re all humans. And I just think that any tradition, any tradition that advocates, you know, that advocates violence, and a tradition that advocates you turning away from somebody else, you know, it’s it’s not really a real tradition to me, you know, I don’t know, that sort of thing. Just the the constant in America, the constant barrage of violence, you know, I just don’t I just don’t understand it. Like, if you’re gonna be violent, be violent, but don’t equate it to a religion. Because, you know, it’s, there’s no, you know, all religions say the same thing. They all have that golden thread. It’s all the same thing. Yeah, you know, it and that same thing is not violence. It’s the it’s love. Yeah,

Brian Smith 1:12:42
you know, it’s we’re basically all one. What, Scott, I want to thank you for watching, it’s been really, really enjoyable. Anything you want to say, as we’re wrapping up?

R Scott Malone 1:12:55
No, I just, um, you know, I think I think, I think, a little bit of silence, I think, a little bit of stillness. And I think, you know, I actually just recently discovered the centering prayer from from the Catholics, and I absolutely love it. It’s essentially a non dual awareness, prayer to really help, you know, deepen that aspect of your heart. I think that anything that we want to do, you know, is is enhanced by, by deepening that by deepening this, this moral and physical compass in our body, if you’re too much in the body, come in, come into the heart, if we’re too much in the head, come down into the heart, but we need all of it.

Brian Smith 1:13:44
Right, right. Yeah, exactly. I want to tell people again, where they can reach you. So for acupuncture, it’s infinite pillar, calm, I N Si, Ni, PT E. pillar P. I ll AR and you described the pillar earlier beautifully. The Reggie did describe that. After energetic teamwork and consulting, it’s esoteric consultant calm, so you can reach out there.

R Scott Malone 1:14:07
And I do I do distance sessions. So the energetic stuff distance sessions as well. So people want that kind of work. There’s no distance when it comes to energy

Brian Smith 1:14:15
Hill. That’s cool.

R Scott Malone 1:14:16
Oh, it’s all it’s all here. I want to thank Jake again for introducing me. To you.

Brian Smith 1:14:22
Yeah. Well, I’ve been trying to get Jake on the show. So this is another shout out to Jake to come on. But, Jake cemal Yeah, he is a fantastic guy. And I think Jake for introducing us also. Yeah. All right, Scott, enjoy the rest of your day. All right. Thank you. I was gonna say that’s it for another episode of grief to growth. I sure hope you got something out of it. Please stay in contact with me by reaching out at www dot grief to growth calm. That’s grief the number two growth.com or you can text the word growth to 31996 at simply text growth. gr o wt h 231996. Since you’re watching this on YouTube, please make sure you subscribe. So hit the subscribe button and then hit the little bell here and it’ll notify you when I have new content. Always please share the information if you enjoy it that helps me to get more views and to get the message out to more people. Thanks a lot and have a wonderful day.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai

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