Sandra Champlain- We Don’t Die Host On The Other Side of the Mic

Sandra Champlain is the host of We Don’t Die, a popular podcast; the author of We Don’t Die, a bestselling book; and the single biggest reason I started podcasting.

Sandra was a lifelong skeptic about the afterlife. But, she also feared death. Her investigative and skeptical mind led her to delve deeply into afterlife studies to know for herself what is true and what is not. Sandra not only studies the afterlife, but she’s also hands-on trying things like Electronic Voice Phenomenon, channel, mental mediumship, attending physical mediumship demonstrations, and even traveling to Arthur Findlay College, the “Hogwarts of Mediumship”.

Sandra is a much sought-after speaker and a friend for several years. I was finally able to find enough time in her busy schedule to get her on Grief to Growth for an hour.

You can find more about Sandra on her website, including information on her new show Shades of the Afterlife on Coast to Coast radio.



Brian Smith 0:00
Close your eyes and imagine what are the things in life that causes the greatest pain, the things that bring us grief, or challenges, challenges designed to help us grow to ultimately become what we were always meant to be. We feel like we’ve been buried, but what if, like a seed we’ve been planted and having been planted, to grow to become a mighty tree. Now, open your eyes, open your eyes to this way of viewing life. Come with me as we explore your true, infinite, eternal nature. This is grief to growth. And I am your host, Brian Smith. Hey everybody, this is Brian back with another episode of grief to growth in a day I’ve got with me, Sandra Champlain. And Sandra and I go way back I’m really, really excited about having her on, on grief to growth, and she’s actually I’m gonna give her credit for being the reason why I’m doing this. So I’ll talk to you about that in a little bit as we get started, but I want to read Sandra’s bio and then we’ll just have a conversation like we always do. The fear of dying let’s say to Champlain in a long road to find evidence of the afterlife, the death of her father calls to investigate the painful worlds of grief. Now 25 years into this journey She is the author of the number one international best selling book We Don’t Die A Skeptics Discovery of Life After Death. She’s also the host of We Don’t Die Radio and shades of the afterlife, a new podcast and I Heart Radio shows online afterlife courses, demonstrations and events, including a free global Sunday gathering. Sandra’s committed to empowering all of us to live our best lives possible. So with that, I want to welcome my friend Sandra Champlain.

Sandra Champlain 1:47
Oh, Brian, thank you so much. I’m so happy to be here.

Brian Smith 1:50
Yeah, I think we’re both really excited about this. As I said, we go back. Oh, wow. Let me think about this five years. I guess. I think I met you. I think it was the first AI conference. I

Sandra Champlain 2:00
think so. I think so. Yes. Yeah.

Brian Smith 2:03
Yeah, it was really wild. I got to tell the story. I hope it doesn’t embarrass you. But we were at the conference. And you walked up to me said, I know you. And I’m like, well, that’s crazy. I can’t believe Sandra knows who I am. And I was and you said I like to have you in my program. And, and I’ve been following you for a long time. Listen to all your podcasts. But you actually thought I was somebody else. And so it was funny. I’m so my wife Sandra wants to have me on her program. But we ended up becoming friends we met and I have been on your program a couple times. So it’s all worked out. Great.

Sandra Champlain 2:35
It’s so funny, because I think things are meant to be. But I’ve embarrassed myself all the time, actually. Okay, we’re together.

Brian Smith 2:44
Yeah, I was okay. said I was I was thrilled. I was like this is this is fantastic. So I would I don’t want to let you tell your story about tell people how you how I started how I discovered you too. But how did you get into like, starting with, we don’t die. And I’m not gonna ask you questions. I already know the answers to but I want the audience to hear it. So how did you get into writing the book and starting the podcast?

Sandra Champlain 3:05
Well, way back when? Oh, gosh, it was 2000 2005. I started taking afterlife courses and things. But it was in the mid 90s that I actually started on this journey looking for evidence of the afterlife, and I had a fear of dying. I don’t know where it came from. My mom speculates I had worked in a nursing home when I was a teenager volunteering and I saw a lot of depth. And maybe in my subconscious, it’s just all built up. And then this fear came. So very secretly, I started this investigation on the world of the afterlife just for myself just to rest my own fears. And there came a point Brian, where I thought, someday I should tell people about this, because it’s pretty big. But like many of us were afraid to share this because we’re afraid of what people think. because growing up I thought anybody that talked about this woowoo spiritual afterlife, angels, all that stuff, that they were crazy. Really I did, I thought, they’re crazy. So the last thing I wanted to do was risk my reputation and come out to the public about what I had found. I mean, the fear that we humans share, I think is awful. And it’s crippling. So even though I would meet people that had lost a loved one, and I kept thinking, Oh, if I can only tell them what i what i found out what I knew that would really help people, but the fear was so strong. And in the early 2000s, I really started looking for things I could tell people besides my story of taking a mediumship class and all these great things that came out of my own mind. You know, my fear was there that people would say, well, who do you see around me, and anyone who’s taken a course in mediumship fear and connecting to the divine can’t be in the same space. So when you’re fearful, all that shuts down So I was looking for more reasons to be able to share with people, good, credible evidence, it didn’t have to come out of my own head. And along those lines, I started thinking, you know, someday I’m gonna write a book, and I’m gonna title it, we don’t die, you know, so that seed had been planted. And it wasn’t until 2010, when my father passed now, long times passed between mid 90s, and 2010. But when my dad passed, it was one of the worst experiences of my life, if not the worst experience, you know, talking about from grief to growth, my family split up, split apart, my siblings, and I started fighting. My dad and I became very, very, very close in those last six months, I was his primary caregiver. And that relationship ended and I got into trying to figure out why grief has to hurt so bad. That was the first thing because I think many of your followers know I mean, grief is the most painful thing we, we go through. So I was really looking for a little self help for me. But in that process, I opened up this world of grief that man I had no idea about, and I don’t think many people know that it’s an autopilot thing that our chemistry goes through, to try to regroup and be accustomed to the new reality. And there are so many things that happen to our grieving mind, that we think we should be able to turn off, you know, thoughts of guilt and replaying situations over and over and those really horrendous feelings of pain and crying. And so I found some things that not only helped me make a smoother transition through grief, yes, it was painful, I’m not ever going to say it was easy. But when I decided to let people know what I found out about grief, I put out a free audio called How to Survive grief, still not talking about the afterlife. And then what happened was, it didn’t quite go viral. But 1000s of people heard it within a few weeks. And people started writing me that not only did it give them understanding, not only grief, from death of a loved one, but say a divorce or being diagnosed with a terminal illness, many things trigger grief. But people started telling me that they chose not to end their life, because of my words. And those that’s pretty profound. I thought to myself, this information needs to be out there as far as it can. But between you and I and your followers here, not many people know they’re grieving, not many people are looking for a grief book. And then I had that aha moment that I thought if I could be courageous enough, and come out with my reasons for believing in the afterlife, title, the book, that title that I like so much, we don’t die, which is totally in your face, because people like Yes, we do. And strategically slide in that information about grief that it could really help mankind. So that was the genesis of it. And the book came out, I believe, in 2013. And my biggest fear really, truly was what people in my life, were going to think about me believing in this stuff. And the opposite happened from what I thought people embraced it very few people gave me a funny look, you know, very, very few. And people embraced it and were interested in then I got the courage to just continue on and start the podcast. And, you know, then that grew. And unfortunately, COVID unfortunately, and fortunately, COVID put everyone in lockdown. Because it was an opportunity for me to be able to get to more people and share what I was really passionate about. And so in the past year and a half, we just have a Gosh, I don’t even know how many hundreds of people that come weekly to our Sunday gathering and take courses that live in the soul and so

is it a synchronicity? Is it a miracle? Is it my grief to growth? I say yes to all of the above. And that’s what brings you and I here together today.

Brian Smith 9:24
Yeah, well, I have to say, you know, the book is excellent. I I think yours was the first podcast I ever listened to like, ever, not just grief podcast, but the afterlife podcast, but I don’t know even how I found it because I wasn’t listening to podcasts and I was walking on a daily basis. And I was like, I’ve got to find something that’s going to help me and I found your podcast, I remember your audio and I’m encouraging people get the audio, get the book, the audio is free. And I remember lying in my bed listening to audio and listen to it a couple times and my wife and I listening to it and it was so helpful when I was going through that first because my daughter passed away in June of 2015, I just listened to every one of your podcasts I went back to through the back catalogue and lists all up. And it really transformed me. You know, and it’s interesting how we have similar journeys. And I, you talked about the fear of death, and the everybody has a fear of death, I think it’s natural. But most of us put it aside, we don’t think about death, people like you, you’re your real deep thinker. And you can’t put it aside.

Sandra Champlain 10:31
Absolutely true. I think people have three major fears. It’s not public speaking, it is fear of dying, fear of being alone and fear of failure. And we can try to put them aside. But you know, everybody knows what you resist persists. And then when you get to a certain age, I think it’s only natural to start asking those big questions. When we’re a kid, we don’t have any fear not so much do we think about death, and who we are and what the big picture is. But I am thrilled because what I’ve uncovered, and many other people have as well, this is not just me. But when we do really believe in the afterlife, when we believe our loved ones, they have a purpose, you know, their souls still growing, they’re still living life on the other side. But they’re only a breath of thought away. And they’re our biggest cheerleaders, when we can embrace that, first of all, our fear of death can go away. But not only that, is our fear of being alone, to know that we have these invisible cheerleaders, often with us within our toughest moments. And not only that, is, if we don’t die, there must be a purpose to our life. And I really do believe it’s an education for the soul, I, I personally believe that heaven or the Hereafter is fantastic. But the thing is, is we all know, if you have something fantastic 24. Seven, it doesn’t become special anymore. So here on Earth, we can really experience and it is through our toughest times that we do have the most soul growth. But when we can embrace this big picture, those things that we’re afraid of as failures, there’s a new context for them, you’re not failing, you know, at all, there’s always learning to be done. So yeah, that’s what I have to say about that.

Brian Smith 12:24
Yeah, you know, it’s it’s interesting how parallel our journeys are that fear of death. And then, you know, again, some people turn away from it, you and I both turned into it’s I did a lot of studying about the afterlife before my daughter passed when you did before your father passed away. But it’s when the rubber hits the road is when we have that grief of that. And that’s what that’s when you have to take what you’ve what you’ve learned and put it into practice. And for you or transform you into launching this this podcast and the book and the audio that have now reached, I don’t know how many 1000s of people and and with your Sunday program, which I want to talk more about the people understand what what that’s about, you’re just you blossomed into something that you wouldn’t have been with that that event of your father having passed?

Sandra Champlain 13:08
Yeah, that’s absolutely true. And unfortunately, I’m one of those people that thinks I can do everything, right. So I figured there must be something within me that I can change so much of what’s happening in my occurring world. And what’s tough to say is I still have estranged relationships with my siblings. And I thought, you know, once I figured all this out, that they’d understand the world of grief, they don’t understand why our communication broke down. Because a grieving mind can’t store information properly, our perspective of what’s coming in. It may not be the truth. So it really can break down relationships. So I thought everything would be great. Well, it’s not that way. And on one hand, it saddens me. On the other hand, I know Brian, we can choose to be responsible for our life, or we can choose to be a victim. So our Sunday gathering that we did on August 29, was accentuate the positive, we played music from the 40s. And there’s a song accentuate the positive, but it was really looking at the positive side of life. And if I’m to choose that, everything that’s happened, dad’s passing, even the breakdown with my siblings, if I’m to choose that that’s positive. What it’s been doing is it’s keeping me fueled to get the message out to more people because my family is not alone in family breakdowns during a death. What if my siblings and I, and even my dad, way in the beginning before coming to earth, we took a look at what’s happening with humanity, and we thought, Hey, guys, we can make a difference here. And dad said, You know what? I’m gonna go this way, you kids will fight. This will happen. Sandra will go on this, this journey, you guys support her from a distance. And like a circle, you know, things that come apart, they come back together at the top. So it’s not every moment that I think this, Brian because I’m human right I have bad days, I do fall into that victimhood sometimes. But there is a conscious choice to see things from the positive. And so I try that as much as possible, I try to speak about my message as much as possible, I try to share as much as possible, because I can’t live in that victimhood. And it’s not very attractive. But when I share about what I know to be truth, that’s when I’m back in the driver’s seat in life.

Brian Smith 15:51
Yeah, and I appreciate and it’s really one of the things that attracted me to you is your your transparency and your honesty about your feelings and about your family and with the book, you know, and audio about grief, because people when they’re going through grief, they think they’re going crazy. There’s something wrong with me, I can’t concentrate, I can’t sleep, I can’t eat, you know, etc. We don’t understand that these things are common. And I learned that by listening to your audio, and even the thing with your family, that’s a very common thing. I’ve seen it over hundreds of people I’ve talked to saying, Yeah, you know, I don’t talk to my sister anymore. My brothers Don’t call me You know, I’ve had a falling out with my mother in law, etc.

Sandra Champlain 16:32
Absolutely. And it’s hard. It’s very, very painful. Because not only my dad’s death happened, but it was like death of relationships, and not being able to see the children, my nieces and nephews. And so I would have to say it was a good four years, even the things that I was doing, but for years that I had this cloud of grief over me. And then one day, and it really was like, there was a cloud over me and dark, rainy skies, but one day, it’s like the sun peak through and I felt like I’m back, you know, you know, there’s some moments that I fall in, because, gosh, all we need to do is see a movie, television, commercial for a Hallmark card, and we can trigger it all over again, right? But the clouds started to lift. And I’m sure you talking about this, like I do. But some like there’s a pine tree that needs to be subjected to extreme forest fires for new growth to begin, and I love grief to growth, because I think I, I really buy into that the toughest times are the things that have the possibility of giving us our soul growth, and getting us on each on that individual journey, because so many people tell us what to believe in. But we ourselves need to find our meaning. And once we start going on that journey, not only is it enriching to ourselves and gives us purpose, but people start automatically falling into our lives that need to hear what we have to say. So while not everybody’s going to have a podcast or a book, don’t ever discount anyone who’s had a tough time, that you’re not the person to really make a difference for another and so many people live, and you see a nice smile. But inside, they could be one step away from ending it all. And that interaction with you might be a compliment might be just a few nice words can really shift the needle for people. Yeah,

Brian Smith 18:45
absolutely. I don’t want to assume everybody knows what we don’t die as your podcast. So take a few minutes and explain to people what it is you do on your podcasts.

Sandra Champlain 18:54
Yeah, I can talk about both actually. back after I wrote the book, I had real employment that I was working as a chef for racecar teams traveling with my mom in a big business, which unfortunately, unfortunately got taken away because of COVID. Because again, now I’m doing this. But in that time, I still yearned for looking for reasons to believe in the afterlife. But I didn’t have time to invest in books. So very sneakily, I thought if I could have conversations with people that have written books, or have had near death experiences, that I could learn a lot without having to invest a lot of time. So I just invented We Don’t Die Radio, just why not? And I would record these conversations and just put them out in the world. And before you and I met I got invited to be a speaker at that afterlife symposium where we met and I asked Craig Hogan, who was the president sense of the afterlife Research and Education Institute if I could share on the podcast about this upcoming symposium, Oh, absolutely. He said, so each and every time. At the end, I would say, oh, and you can meet me and other great people, these dates and this go to this website. Once we got to that symposium, there was something like 750 people there. And Craig Hogan said to me, when he put in the registration, how did you find out about this 550 put Sandra Champlain’s We Don’t Die Radio. So this still gives me goosebumps

Brian Smith 20:38
to this. So I found out about it.

Sandra Champlain 20:40
Because here I am, most of the time recording these conversations sitting in my jammies, you know, and never having known the impact, and then to meet people face to face, who have suffered incredible loss many times have children, loved ones, made many things, many people and how they found hope and faith in my words and understanding. And again, boy, I don’t take this lightly when somebody doesn’t take their own life because of the information. I mean, that’s, that fuels me to keep going. So with that, I just kept it up. And so now there’s 361 hours of episodes of We Don’t Die Radio, and about a year ago, actually was about a year and a half ago, because it was just before COVID hit. I got a call from the producer of Coast to Coast AM, which you may or may not know, but they’re this overnight radio show on mainstream radio, dealing with the paranormal. And I had been a guest on their show a couple of times, they really liked my words. And they said, We are working with I Heart Radio, and we want to create our own Podcast Network. We want to have one on the afterlife. Would you be interested in being our host? Yes. So I actually had a conversation with the president of I Heart Radio. Wow. And then COVID hit and I heard nothing else about it. I thought well, that’s alright. It’s in God’s hands, so to speak. But then I got the call. We’re ready, we’re settled, we want to start. And so how shades of the afterlife is different than We Don’t Die Radio is that if I only had one hour to have with someone on shades of the afterlife, I want to pump in as much information as I can. That so there’s different topics within each episode of shades of the afterlife where as We Don’t Die Radio, I talk to one person. So there’s different topics, there’s more of my thoughts, instead of just hearing the thoughts of a guest. And also there’s a lot more of the new and cutting edge information in that. Now there are commercial breaks, which on We Don’t Die Radio, there’s no commercials, because I don’t like commercials. But the thing I had to realize is to be backed by iheart radio Coast to Coast AM they’re committed to getting to the most people. Well, commercials are necessary to do that to get sponsorship to get it out there. So anyways, there’s some pretty great sponsors to it. And now there’s between the two shows there’s a well over 400 hours of episodes.

Brian Smith 23:34
Wow, crazy credible. Yeah, that’s amazing. So um, so you you met you because you and I had we were I said let’s not talk too much before we get started. So I know that you when I met you you’re a full time chef catering on the race racing circuit. I know that kind of fell apart last year. So are you not doing that at all now,

Sandra Champlain 23:55
not at all the teams we cooked for we would have a big hospitality tent with a buffet down the center, lots of tables and chairs. And it was for the emsa series of racing, which is owned by NASCAR cars go 200 miles an hour, and it’s a business I shared with my mom for over 33 years. And with COVID hitting, there could be no more buffets. So the racist stopped for a while and when they started again, the racetracks were supplying the meals in individual to go containers. And we didn’t have the staff or the equipment once it started opening back up again, to be able to offer that plus, mom’s close to 80 on 55. We hadn’t had any vaccines yet. The last thing we wanted to do was to be around a lot of people. So there’s another fellow who also had a catering company. So we supported him from a distance to be Successful so that he could have a livelihood and be able to put these meals on for these teams. So a lot of teams don’t get the the catering they will go out and have sandwiches for their teams. So it’s still up in the air of the future, how that’s going. But for myself, it’s like, how do I pay the bills? Yeah, what do I do. And for a long time, I’ve had this hope and wish and dream, that somehow I would transition out of doing the catering and be full time sharing what’s in my heart. And that’s the after the reality of the afterlife, helping people through grief and helping people have a better life. And nothing can force you into that more than when you no longer have an income. So in a way, I mean, I have to have integrity, because that’s who I am. But I partnered up with some of my favorite medium friends, Scott Milligan, Carrie McLeod, Philip dikes, who also couldn’t travel and also couldn’t support their families. And I said, Guys, what if we start doing things online,

100% Money Back Guarantee low cost, people get recordings of everything. Because like I said, integrity is so important to me. And over the past year and a half, building this community that people can take courses, to tap into their soul to tap into their psychic nature, to get into these breakout rooms and be able to do readings with people that could be 3000 miles away, for people to learn mediumship, to and so much more. We’ve really developed this community. And then one of the things we had done also, and this is the Sunday gathering, is there are places called spiritualist churches that are around the world. And I’ve been a couple of times, and they’re great services. But at the end, what makes them different is the minister is also a medium, and he or she will work the congregation and prove that life after death is real, not as entertainment, but as empowering people that your loved ones are still around. So I had thought someday when we do a live event, because before COVID, we did a few We Don’t Die live events, and had many people attend. But I thought we could bring that Sunday service to our community and between my friends and I, we thought what if we tried to figure this out online, people are in lockdown. People can’t leave their homes, people are scared, there’s a lot of death going on. Let’s just try it. So happy that we have now over 75 weeks of these which you can watch the replays. They’re all very empowering, very empowering. Each one has a theme, whether it’s gratitude, or accentuate the positive, living in the positive, or whatever it may be. But we bring in a few really great elements. One is the power of prayer. We don’t push spirituality on anyone, so people of any religion or not, can attend. There’s a moment that we do healing to we we play a beautiful piece of music, and we have people send healing visualize people in their lives and themselves. Healthy well and whole, we do a reading. And the readings are not like a reading from a gospel. They are people living on the court on whatever subject matter we talk about. So they’re live like there’s an address where someone will speak from their heart, it’s usually one of us, sometimes a guest, you’ve been on our Sunday gathering to really share what’s in your heart. And then what makes us really different is that we have a medium demonstration within every one of our gatherings. We may have two to 300 people joining us live. And only a handful of people will be reunited with their loved one who’s in the afterlife. But the way it’s brought through, there are so many specifics that our mediums can’t make up. And we ask the people attending if you are working with one of the mediums to just say yes no or I don’t know, don’t give them any information. And everybody can feel the love coming through the shared memories, the evidence. And so it leaves people realizing that in this unseen space around us are our biggest cheerleaders that are still very much alive and doing their very best to plant images and thoughts and memories in our imagination. But sometimes our minds are so very busy, we don’t feel it. But that’s how they work. And so there’s music, they’re very light hearted, but it really gives a shot in the arm of spirituality and knowing that there’s a much bigger picture and that our lives here on Earth are important.

Brian Smith 30:18
Awesome. So tell people how they can get to the Sunday gatherings. I know I go through Facebook is it available on YouTube also,

Sandra Champlain 30:24
it is available on YouTube. Also, if you go to my our our home base, which is we don’t you can click on the store button or the calendar and see everything that’s coming up. But there’s also a tab on the top that says Sunday gathering. And so there’s the Facebook, links of all the past replays. And then there’s also the registration link for the upcoming one. So you can register and you can be part of our Zoom Room, if you’d like to. And if they’re all they’re all free, so And while you’re at, we don’t die calm, there is a box that you can join my email list. And if you do, I don’t spam you by any means. But you get a free copy of my book, We Don’t Die A Skeptics Discovery of Life After Death in PDF form. And you also get that audio of how to survive grief. Plus, if you scroll to the radio show tab at the top, you can listen to all those episodes I was telling you about.

Announcer 31:24
We’ll get back to grief to growth in just a few seconds. Did you know that Brian is an author and a life coach. If you’re grieving or know someone who is grieving his book, grief to growth is a best selling easy to read book that might help you or someone you know, people work with Brian as a life coach to break through barriers and live their best lives. You can find out more about Brian and what he offers at WWW dot grief to www dot g ri e f the number two gr o w th calm. If you’d like to support this podcast visit slash grief to growth TRE oh slash g ri e f the number two gr o w th to make a financial contribution. And now back to grief to growth.

Brian Smith 32:21
I wanted to say to anybody because I said I listened to the audio This was several years ago. And you know, read the book and listen to every episode up into that point at least. This is an excellent, excellent free resource on getting through your grief, especially that early part where you’re like you think you’re going crazy. And a lot of times people when they’re angry, they can’t read, they just can’t focus enough to read. So having an audio format is a great way to get that information you know out there and the Sunday gatherings. I go to them on occasion I can’t get to them every week but I go to they’re fantastic. They’re like the most uplifting service you’ve ever had there two o’clock Eastern Time. On Sundays, of course, you can always get the recordings. But it’s a great way to really fill your fill your soul.

Sandra Champlain 33:08
Yeah, people need something to keep themselves plugged in to the bigger picture. I’ve had a tough couple of months, my mom is healthy and well but she went through a little spell that she wasn’t and I’m relocated to live with her I still have my house in Massachusetts, but like here with mom is where I know I need to be. And not every day has been a great day. I just got tremendously sick myself a couple of weeks ago. And it’s hard for us human beings to understand the bigger picture 24 seven so we all fall into this inner chatter made up our mind is not a pleasant place. You know, it starts off when we look at ourselves in the mirror in the morning, whether it’s the wrinkles of the gray hair, too much weight or whatever. We’re you know, right there, it’s saying something negative or we’re stewing about the past or we’re worried about the future. It’s it can be ugly to be in our own minds. And I think that might be the design of the human being because when we can have so many experiences in life. This is how we grow this is how our soul grows. But it’s important to remember the big picture so we like to do the Sunday gatherings I really enjoy people that listen to the podcasts and I listened to my own things and listen to books as well or read books because left to our own devices we are living in a negative mind we are just how it is. But keeping connected through podcasts and books in the Sunday gathering or an online course. It can help in the bigger picture. So for me, every Sunday, even when I wasn’t feeling good, you know, I had to put a smile on my face. And guess what happens? I feel good. I feel good. And here’s a little trick for any one of your followers. And I think you already know this, but a lot of people around us can be negative. And there’s a way to shift them that also shifts us. And you get people engaged in some of their favorite memories. And for instance, I was working with a guy at the racetrack catering, and he couldn’t have been any grumpier. And just mean, you know, and that’s something that normally worked with us. And I thought, Sandra, let’s try this strategy. And I just asked him, I said, Hey, Dan, you have kids? Yes. That’s how many do you have I for you know, he is so grumpy. And I said, Do you remember when your first child was born? No, I’m single, I haven’t had that experience. Well, it took him a second. And all of a sudden, he just had a smile on his face, remembering when he held his baby in his hands for the first time. And he paused. And then I said, Oh, what what do your kids like? Well, the more he started sharing about that, Brian, oh, he became happy. What do you like to travel? You know, what are your favorite vacation spots? What are your favorite? Oh, tell me about your kids. So it’s strategy, yes. But when we are with people, and they can start feeling better and start sharing, they’ll naturally ask you the same questions. And it’s just, it lifts us up and people need people. So that’s just a little tool.

Brian Smith 36:38
Yeah. You said something there, I think is really important. And I’ve wondered this myself, because you said people tend to be negatives are in our minds a bad place to be in certain extent. But I believe that’s where the human was designed. That’s, that’s biology. Because it goes back to you know, we’re biological beings, we have to look out for danger. So we’re always looking for what’s wrong, you know, that’s where so we’ll look at a situation and 99.9% of the can be right, but we’re looking for what’s wrong. And that’s, that’s not a bad thing. That’s just the way we’re designed. But we can make a choice. And this is, you know, when I first heard about this positive thinking are essentially the positive and I’m, I’m a real rationalist kind of person. I’m an engineer. I’m like, that’s a bunch of hogwash, I’m not going to try to fool myself into believing things are great. And I’m reading Norman Vincent Peale, the power of positive thinking, I literally threw them in the trash can. I’m like, this is just garbage. But I have realized over the course of especially the last six years, and Shane has passed, that everything is a choice. How we look at everything is a choice and the things that you’ve gone through the passing of your father, the breaking up of your family, we can choose to look at that as the negative part of it are, what, what growth came out of it? And what purpose does it serve. And that’s why your show, you know, both of your shows, the Sunday gathering the book, those are all making a choice to look at things from a different

Sandra Champlain 38:03
perspective. Absolutely, absolutely. And it’s not easy. You know, I’ve had some real dark times I never contemplated and in my own life, but I got it, life was so dark that I completely understood how people would choose that option. And it is a choice. And there’s a lot out there about the power of gratitude. And while I do buy into the power of being human, there’s so much more that we’re capable of, on this unseen level that we we don’t know, I do, but buy into a lot of that, but also to live on the court. And if I start going down that negative tunnel, it takes something to catch it and go, Oh my gosh, I’m on this kind of loop, repetitive loop here. And the more we think thoughts, the more those thoughts will come. So the more guilt we feel over say, oh my my dad went just before he passed his best friend called me on my cell phone and said, I’d like to just let my best friend Hear my words before he goes. So I held my cell phone to my dad’s ear. Brian, and for about 10 minutes this guy said whatever messages he said to my dad, they were friends forever, his friends forever. And it wasn’t till after he hung up that I realized that I held the phone to my dad’s deaf ear. I lived with that guilt for so long. Just feeling awful. Now many moons later I realize that the big picture dad hurt it. But I learned to catch myself in the act. Every time my mind wanted to start thinking about that, I would start thinking about something positive, something I’m grateful for. And while I couldn’t come up with these big, grandiose, great things I’m grateful for, I would say, I’m grateful I can breathe, I’m grateful I can walk, there’s some people that can’t walk, I’m grateful that I have a bed to sleep in. And I would force myself to write down 50 things that I’m grateful for. And to give my mind attention to that, to side rail, those thoughts of guilt. And once you start writing, things you’re grateful for a really sneaky and wonderful things have happens is you start really feeling the gratitude. And there’s a whole different way of living, thinking about the positive feeling grateful for something. And it does make you feel better. And here’s a bonus that helps lift those natural neurotransmitters that help us move through grief. Yeah, so it does a lot for our chemistry as well.

Brian Smith 41:07
You know, and, again, when I first heard this before I started practicing. I’m like, Yeah, I don’t believe this. But I have to say I’ve been doing it for several years now. And it works. And also we talked about how the brain is naturally drawn to the negative, it retrains your brain to see the positive. So you will start noticing more positive things in your life. And there, we call them little things, big things. But I do this every practice every morning for I get it but at least three things I’m grateful for. And it can’t be like, I get to go for a walk today. I couldn’t go for a walk today, because it’s raining. So if I get a chance to go for a walk tomorrow, I’ll be grateful for the fact I do get a chance to do that. So we definitely can choose that. And that’s what you know, that’s the message that you give them a and I love, like I said, Your transparency, because people. The other thing we tend to do is we idealize other people’s lives. So we say their life is great. Look how great I have, I’ve actually had someone say this to me, a friend, actually, we fell out as friends. You say, I can’t be around you, your life is too perfect. And I’ve like, Okay, let me let me tell you what my life is really like, but we do that with other people. My life is horrible, your life is great. So it’s really important for us to understand, we all have challenges, you know, and I want to go back to something you said earlier, because people again, look at people like I like yourself. Sanders got a successful radio show, you know, she’s gonna have 1000s of listeners, she’s probably making all kinds of money from the show. And when we do podcasting, there’s very little to no money, no end podcasting. And then so I want to broaden this a little bit, because I know you talk to a lot of mediums. I’ve heard people say, well, mediums shouldn’t charge money. People that are doing podcasts, I just had an situation very recently, where somebody was monetizing YouTube channel, and someone else criticized that person for monetizing the YouTube channel for putting ads on it. And you know, it takes time for us to do what we’re doing. So I just want you to explain to people what it’s really like being on the other side of this, you have you had a full time job for most of the time you were doing this.

Sandra Champlain 43:12
Yeah, I had a full time job that paid my bills. So this could be a hobby. And that disappeared. So while I had a little bit of money and savings, certainly not enough to go forward to pay all my bills. It’s tough. And just because someone writes books, so I’ve written a book here, I can show it off. It’s my book. Yeah, that’s it. I think I get less than $2, a copy that sold in the world. And now there’s not millions of copies sold. So there’s 1000s, but not millions, right. And the podcasts are all labors of love. I mean, certainly they brought people to some of our online courses and things like that. But there needs first of all, to be an exchange of energy. It is proven that people that are given a book 97% of them, don’t read it, right. It’s only those people that actually purchase it. And then once they purchase it, most people only read the first chapter. So if you’re going to write a book, put your best stuff in the first chapter. But people don’t take seriously things very often that they don’t pay for. I’m a big proponent of this money back guarantee. And while most people don’t ask for their money back, it breaks down the barrier that okay, this is somebody I can trust. If she’s really willing to put that out there, you know, I’ll take a chance. So even some of the mediums that I recommend doing a wonderful practice of saying within the first 10 minutes if you’re not feeling that connection, or I’m not supplying you good information, let’s just call this out. And no money exchanged hands, because there’s people out there charging a lot of money for things. doctors can’t give away their services. But you know, we just can’t it takes money to make the world go around. So if you look for people that have that transparency, have that integrity, it speaks volumes, it really does. I’ve had people very kindly donate to me knowing the situation, but because everything’s made a difference, and because I’ve been the person I am. So people, I say, need to shine who you really are. anyone listening or viewing right now you are one of a kind, you are special. The world needs you just the way you are not trying to be somebody else. But try to be you when we are authentic. And we can show our embarrassment, or our warts or whatever they say warts and all. Yeah, that’s some people can fall in love with you, is be you you’re one of a kind. People need to hear things just the way you have them. And with that you can never lose, really. And when you put your sights on making a difference for another person, I think life can work out. If I was forced Brian to do an afterlife show or shows or do the Sunday gathering. Because I needed to make money, it wouldn’t work. But if I’m able to share what I love, generously, genuinely from my soul, be able to exercise my creativity and I’m a fun person, I like to have fun. So to engage in good conversations with people I trust in the big picture that it will work out.

Brian Smith 46:52
Yeah, yeah, you know, it’s Yeah, it’s interesting because I have gone through similar transition that that you’re going through, and I do have a full time thing which is not going so well right now. So figure out what that’s going to do. I love doing this work. But sometimes people don’t realize how much effort it takes for you know, for us to do this, you know, you have 400 episodes, that’s, that’s at least 400 hours just recording, not to mention the editing and the prepping and inviting guests and all the other things that go into it. So just I guess I want people to understand that you know, we love doing this, but it does, it does take a certain amount of effort. I want to talk to you about your experiences because you’ve had some incredible experiences. Like I know you traveled the Arthur Findlay College, you’re you’re a medium, I don’t I don’t think you’re practicing medium. Now in terms of professional. You’ve been to physical, you know, seances and stuff. So tell people about some of the stuff you’ve been able to experience as you’ve been going through this journey.

Sandra Champlain 47:53
Oh, I’d love to. First of all, the subtitle of my book is A Skeptics Discovery of Life After Death. So it’s important to know that I didn’t believe in any of this at all, at all, so I was very secret going through it. And one of the very first things that I had done was take a course in mediumship. And the instructor had said, if you get drawn to this class is because you’re a natural, medium, and etc, and so forth. So I thought, when things seemed too good to be true, yeah, most of the time they are. But I went and she gave us just the basics of how mediumship works, and how the afterlife, this unseen world is a vibrating energy around us that we are actually part of it, instead of it being out there somewhere. And that when we can quiet our mind and trust, the feelings and the images that we’re getting. And we have love in our heart for the person that we’re with that all you need to do is tell a story of what’s coming to your mind. And so the very first exercise she gave us, she says, We’re not going to do a medium reading, because you’re not you’re not there yet, so to speak. But she says I want you to each pretend you’re a medium. I just want you to evoke your imagination, and create that somebody is behind your partner, she had a pair up and twos and somebody is behind them. And she says I want you to sit there, hold hands with your partner, close your eyes and just invent that there’s somebody standing behind them. And all there is to do is just tell the story. Now again, we’re not really doing it. We’re just this is what we will do eventually. So she took away that fear that I needed to try to be a medium. I didn’t know that at the time. But I’m certainly creative, I think, and I invented with my eyes closed that there was a man standing behind my partner. I didn’t know this woman at all. But I heard the name Yon come in my mind I heard Denmark. I saw a blond haired blue eyed, blond haired blue eyed Man with a big gap between his teeth puffing on a cigarette. And then I saw a fishing boat. So I said, Well, okay, I believe that I’ve got your grandfather here with me that his name was Yon. He was a fisherman from Denmark. This is what he looked like the gap between his teeth. And he died of lung cancer. And then I got this message kind of coming through that. He never said I love you to his daughter, which was would been her mother. And anyway, so I just delivered my message with my eyes closed. I opened my eyes just to tell the lady Okay, it’s your turn to go. And there’s just streams of tears coming down her face. her grandfather’s name was young. He was a fisherman in Denmark, died of lung cancer fit the description. And her mother was somebody who was really hugging and really I love you because her own father never said I love you.

Brian Smith 50:58
Wow, wow.

Sandra Champlain 51:00
That started it, Brian lab started it. And while I’m not a practicing medium, I do keep a foot in the door of a medium class we do on Thursdays. Just to kind of keep that up. I I think my mission is, I don’t want to say bigger than being a medium because being a medium is pretty mighty to be able to reconnect people with their loved ones. But I want to reconnect people in different ways. And I want people to know their life is for a purpose. So I’m not a practicing medium. I’ve never got to the point where I can really trust that stuff that’s coming out of my mouth is from the afterlife. It’s not my imagination, because sometimes it is my imagination. So that’s one of the things that had happened. But once I learned that, again, I didn’t tell people because first thing that asked me is Who do you see around me, and oh, my gosh, the fear is crippling, but I took a course in something called Electronic Voice Phenomena, which is ebp. And I wanted to see if there was any credibility to this, there was a husband and wife that I had seen at a spiritualist church and they played a recording that they said they left their tape recorder in their room with just a fan blowing. And they left the house for 20 minutes. And they said when they came back, this is what we heard on our recording. And both the couples, the both the people in the couple had been divorced. And they had had children who had passed in prior marriages. So the little voice said, Mommy, and Daddy, don’t be scared, we’re still here with you.

And there was giggles and things. And oh my gosh, Brian, again, goosebumps filled me to think if that’s possible, and people can actually hear this, then I’d have a little bit more of a backbone to share the evidence, the afterlife. So I went on to a retreat center, the Omega Center in New York, and took a weekend retreat on this Electronic Voice phenomenon. And it was just a small group, there was I think eight of us in the class. And the couple were very scientifically minded. And they were also spiritualist ministers. And they would say that our loved ones don’t have all the answers in the universe just because they pass but they can practice this as well. There’s different things they can practice on their side to be in communication. So we always say just a little loving prayer, I just feel that builds the energy in the in the connection. And there’s always something going on in the background. So whether it’s a fan blowing, people call it white noise. And of course that was a name of a scary movie. But there’s no scariness that comes through that’s that’s Hollywood. But there’s messages of love and sometimes humor that comes through because we get our to keep our own personalities when we pass, which is great. But every night, we would practice this, and I went to my room on the last night of class before the last day of class. And I wanted this to be so real. I really did. And unfortunately, I had not heard anything in my own recordings. So I was getting a little discouraged. But I went back to my cabin and it was just pouring rain outside. I was all alone. I put my tape recorder out there holding it. And I imagined my grandmother, grandfather and aunt and uncle in the room. And I said guys, if this is real and I’m supposed to help people believe in the afterlife, I said, Please try to talk louder, you know. And so I just left the tape recorder recording the raindrops for about a minute. And when I played it back, again, the goosebumps I had to replay it over and over and over. And it said Good night Sandra. And then hear two little whispers Good night. Good night. And then Good night. And, oh, you’re talking about a holy cow moment. Yeah, it was comforting. But it was also a little fearful. I thought, you know, people always around me all the time. The answer’s no, they don’t watch you in the shower in intimate moments. No, they have lives to live, but that they are around. And so using that recorder, I started sharing my story, and I’d meet people, and we would do recordings together just to see if somebody would come through. And I know, Hurricane Ida is hitting New Orleans as we record this. And 16 years ago was Hurricane Katrina. And I had met a woman at a conference and told her my story, and she said her mom had died in Hurricane Katrina. And she says, could we try to do one of these recordings, and literally, we were sitting at the San Francisco Airport, I had no idea if this would work. The lady introduced herself to me as de. And that’s how I knew her. And so we recorded the white noise, the background noise was just airport noise, people talking and all of that. And just before she boarded her airplane, we did this recording. And I heard and she heard a very loud, I love you, Elizabeth. That didn’t make sense to me. But she looked at me and she said, My real name is Elizabeth. Only my mom called me, Elizabeth. Wow, though, shifted her life, she boarded her airplane. And you know, there’s other stories to tell about that. So that’s amazing. There’s also people that are mediums that are spirit artists, and they can talk to you and tell you evidence, but meanwhile, their hands drawing their picture. And, like my dad came through how he looked in his 20s when he was healthy and well in the airforce. Also, there’s a beautiful woman in Brazil named Sonia Rinaldi, who I think is the leading edge of afterlife proof because of some of these images that she shows. I know there’s also folks with the soul phone that are really doing some amazing things as well. But Sonia can take video. And she works with the audio to these voice messages. But she’s can create different with like white noise, but visually social, use some different projectors and put like the, whatever you want to call it.

static images kind of all in the center here, and she’ll film it. And there’s, she’ll film it. And then she’ll go through frame by frame. And in each section of the video, there could be 32, or 64 frames. So she’ll literally go through each one. And at one point, she was sending me pictures of these unknown people that would come through, and one of them kind of looked like my dad. And I just kind of very silently said, Dad, if you’re trying to come through to Sonia, I said, it looks kind of like you but I’m not 100% convinced? Well, one day she sent me a picture, Brian, that was almost identical to my dad, how he looked when he was in the Air Force, I’ve got an image of my dad looking straight at the camera with the smile. The image that she got through this trans communication was he was looking off to the side, but it was like the same picture. And then she sent me the video of all the static, and then you can see it transform into his face, and then it disappears. So currently, right now we have We Don’t Die and my friend Robert Lyon is just coming home from Brazil now. And we have a documentary that’s being made. So if anybody wants to look at We Don’t Die you can see the preview and you can see a whole bunch of the work she’s done. But those are just a handful of the things there’s so much more and I know time goes by fast. So again, get a free copy of my book and there’s a ton of stuff like we don’t die calm, so I won’t go through all

Brian Smith 59:07
of it. Yeah, and that’s one of the things I really appreciate about you. You’re you’re not only a skeptic, but you’re also an experiencer you’re like okay, if this is real, if this mediumship is real, let me take a mediation Of course let me go to an MVP course you’ve I know you’ve gotten to Arthur Finley, you’ve been to and we want to, we have a little bit of time left. But I know you’ve you’ve been to physical sciences, which a lot of people might not understand what physical mediumship is. So maybe take a cup cuz I know you’re friends with Scott Milligan is an incredible human being. And he does this thing that tell people what to say and says

Sandra Champlain 59:40
it’s wild. Now first of all, through all of our skeptical minds, that word seance can really activate something in us to thank you, okay, I’ve really enjoyed this interview on grief to growth, but now they’ve gone too far right? So our mind can tell us that. And there’s also a word that I was always afraid to say too which is ectoplasm because we think of Read stuff from Ghostbusters. Well, when I started digging, Dan Ackroyd, who wrote the movie, his grandfather, great grandfather as well, too, would participate in these seances. So that’s how he learned the word ectoplasm. And, again, I totally get it. If this seems a little far out there, it’s one of those things you have to experience to believe. And same thing. There’s very few things, few physical mediums out there. And due to COVID, people aren’t meeting but eventually we will again, but it’s being in a small group of people, the one person who Scott Milligan, a physical medium, he sits in what’s called a cabinet, it’s just a frame, which has got four black curtains on it, basically. And that’s to build up this energy, we sing songs, we laugh, and this builds up, this energy that exudes from him. So it’s like a vapor or a mist that comes out and again, sounds wild. But what I have experienced is people who are deceased, actually can step into this and become real again, you can hear their voice, you can touch them. There’s been animals that have come through with little cat stepping on your lap, I have. It’s dark, it’s, this is done in the dark. But there’s often a red light on or a little glow in the dark something. And I’ve actually seen the hands of a little spot, a spirit child, I could see them, she touched me. As she moved around. I’ve heard people reunited with their loved ones, again, really specific information that only that person knows.

It’s incredible. It’s really wild. And again, to the skeptical mind, it seems like it could be make believe. So again, when we when the world starts cleaning up a little and we start doing more live, we don’t die events. We’ll have Scott Milligan there, you can experience it for yourself. Another thing that he does is what’s called trance mediumship, which for the past 25 years, he has learned how to quiet his mind and let a spirit person you know, we all have guides and friends and the unseen world, be able to use his mouth and speak through him. Now he’s not possessed, he’s not being taken over by any means. All that’s present is love. And every Friday, you can come for free, you can leave a donation, we do one of these demonstrations of trance mediumship. And we get to speak to his friend in the unseen world and ask any question about life, death, the afterlife. Now the person that comes through, has a different voice, a different tone to their speaking, he passed at the end of the 1800s. So it’s very prim and proper. Being around this gentleman, Eric, for the past five years, it is completely different than Scott, its personality or who Scott is. And again, this could be something you experience to realize that hey, this guy’s not making this up. If you want to watch one again, we don’t if you click on the store, scroll down, there’s got to be 50 replays, there be my guests Use coupon code free, and you can listen to one. And also at the Arthur Findlay College, I took a two courses on trance mediumship, to try to quiet my mind. And we were all given the opportunity if we wanted to, to present to the entire class. And so I knew in my soul, that I have a real incredible problem with fear. Most of the time, fear stops me and I was committed to not let it stop me. So I raised my hand, I closed my eyes for about 10 minutes, I just concentrate on my breathing. Now I’m still aware. But you know, you say a little prayer that whoever my guide is, or my friend is in that unseen world can use me to speak. And what the instructor would say is it could be 1%, the spirit world and 99% Sandra, because our souls are very intelligent. But Brian, I just went for it. And so with my eyes closed, just focusing on my breath. We always say the Spirit wants to tell you, you know, just to get the ball rolling, but didn’t my mouth and my words continue to come out of my mouth. Now, when we talk, we’re very present that it’s us talking. And when I’m concentrating on my breath, and words still keep coming out. You know, the first thing I did was try to pay attention to what those words were, and it stopped. So then I went back to paying attention to my breath. And the words continued. I also had the feeling that I was turning And I was talking to everybody in the circle, there’s probably 30 people. And finally, the word stopped. It took a few minutes for me to just kind of get myself together and I opened my eyes. People were crying, I thought, Oh, they said, I told some kind of a story about a ship on a journey and the waves and the darkness and, but relating it to our paths as being human beings, and how all these different things are going to come in and try to rock us but to you know, but down at the deep depths of the ocean where everything is quiet. So where we can tap in something like that, they were telling me and I said to them, I said it was so weird, because I moved, I moved looking at everybody, it felt like they said, Sandra, you remained perfectly still. So we must have this aesthetic body. And so while I’m not practicing that, because I don’t have any, but like, my mom would freak out if she knew the story. Nobody sent her this video, but to know that that’s possible, and to know how important it is to sit with the quiet of our own mind. And just, I love it. I love it. And I love being part of it. I don’t have any idea how it’s going to unfold. I’ve got some roses outside that are these really tight buds. And no matter how much I can’t wait to see them bloom and smell their fragrance, we can’t force it. So I know what we can do is I can water and give good fertilizer to my roses. But same with us if we can kind of surrender believe that there’s a bigger picture take some time to quiet our mind and just trust focus on our breath know that that we’re loved we’re giving ourselves that water and sunlight and fertilizer for ourselves to unfold.

Brian Smith 1:06:56
Yeah, absolutely. And I love hearing you tell this and this is I wanted to give people a little preview of what you’re going to get if you listen to the We Don’t Die podcast and also I guess on shades of the afterlife there’s so much and so you might say okay, I can’t go as far as physical mediumship I don’t believe people can do that. Okay, that’s fine. But you know ebps and the and the people that you’ve interviewed and and all the other there’s just so much and I’ve talked to quote skeptics. One person I was comes to mind she said there’s no evidence of any of this stuff. And so she was total skeptic said, Send me the best medium You know, I’m going to go I’m going to prove this was wrong. So I sent her the best medium I knew. And she came back she goes it’s absolutely true. Then she started doing her own research and she came back and she goes Why isn’t anybody told me that all this is out there you know and if you find a podcast like we don’t die and start listening to it, you’ll be amazed by how much evidence is really out there and and the things that we all experience and Scott’s you know, incredible what he does. I’ve heard other people channeling, I’ve seen some women with very high pitched voices, channel men with very deep voices. I’m like, I know they’re not that good in person in your voice.

Sandra Champlain 1:08:08
And you have to really look for the intelligence, because I hate to say it, there are people out there that are frauds there are. But when you get the goosebumps when you start having this pull at your soul, your gut thinking, this is the real deal. Pay attention to that. We all have that inner bs detector, I’ll say that we do. Pay attention to our feelings, you know, you we all have the gut instincts. But if there’s a little bit of you that’s interested in exploring the evidence is there. You know, there’s a company a group called ions. I am d And I know, you know that well. There are millions of people who have had near death experiences. And for me as the skeptic, I would say, oh, there’s no proof of, you know, a near death experience. It’s just a natural thing that our minds go through when we die. Well, idiot, Sandra, it Meanwhile, there’s this organization that’s been out for ever that’s got the military involved with countless stories of these people, and what happens and what they’ve witnessed and what they’ve come back and how they’ve lived life and blind people that have never had vision, can see during a near death experience, and if accurately told people what they were doing, what clothes they were wearing, there’s so much more but you know, we want to, it’s not that we choose to be skeptical, like you said, it’s part of our Human Design, but doesn’t serve us all the time. So if you want to have the most powerful life ever, really buy into the positivity in that there is a much bigger picture. don’t take our word for it. Go on the journey, and you’re gonna find some miraculous things.

Brian Smith 1:09:56
Totally agree. I think that’s a great way to wrap up. It’s actually 1111 Here too. So Sandra, I want to thank you so much for doing this. It’s been an honor. You know, having you on my podcast, I would have never thought six years ago that I’d be doing a podcast. And certainly I think I’d be interviewing us so we don’t know where things are going to go. So as you wrap up, remind people where they can find you what it is you’re doing.

Announcer 1:10:19

Sandra Champlain 1:10:20
I would say you started we don’t home base for everything. Excuse me, you can see our Sunday gathering or online courses, past things, future things coming up. And listen to a ton of episodes. If you click on that radio show link. There’s no need for you to believe that you’re alone in this world and that your life doesn’t matter. I tell you, you who’s ever listening or watching this right now you are special, you are one of a kind. And none of us want to take that final breath in this life having any regrets. So your dreams are important. It’s never too late to start. But know when you do take that last breath, that the journey continues on whatever we don’t do here, we can do over there. And we will open our eyes and like crossing a finish line. With people doing the wave and standing ovation will be greeted by our loved ones and even our pets. Wow. Thank you Brian.

Brian Smith 1:11:22
That’s a great picture. Good seeing you have a great rest of your day. Thank you. So that does it for another episode of grief to growth. I sure hope you enjoyed it. If you like this content, make sure you subscribe, so click on the subscribe button here and then click on the bell to receive notifications and click on all that way you’ll be notified whenever I release new content. Thanks for watching and have a great day.

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