tracy for blog

Tracy Crossley- She Helps Break Unhealthy Patterns

Tracy Crossley is a Behavioral Relationship Expert, Author, and Podcast Host, who specializes in treating individuals with unhealthy LIFE and relationship patterns. Tracy helps clients transform, impostor syndrome, insecure attachment, negative belief systems, breaking the cycle of narcissistic damage, destructive self-talk, and more. With a background in psychology, an innate emotional intuition, which draws from her own personal experience. Tracy shows her clients how to PERMANENTLY change the repetition of the unhealthy, unhappy, and unfulfilled cycles personally and professionally.

Tracy’s popular weekly mental health podcast, Freedom from Attachment: Living Fulfilled, Happy, and in Love offers listeners a different perspective when it comes to breaking the cycle of unhealthy behaviors that keep them stuck repeating pain-inducing actions on auto-pilot. The podcast addresses folks who want to deal with their emotional baggage and get unstuck, happy, and have a clear mindset. She also has a monthly podcast called Moving On, where she invites guests to speak about their life experiences in overcoming difficult times to be successful and happy in their lives.

You can find Tracy at:





Brian Smith 0:01
Now that you’re here at Grief 2 Growth, I’d like to ask you to do three things. The first thing is to make sure that you like click Notifications, and subscribe to make sure you get updates for my YouTube channel. Also, if you’d like to support me financially, you can support me through my tip jar at grief to growth, calm, it’s grief, the number two jar or look for tip jar at the very top of the page, or buy me a coffee at the very bottom of the page and you can make a small financial contribution. The third thing I’d like to ask is to make sure you share this with a friend through all your social media, Facebook, Instagram, whatever. Thanks for being here. Close your eyes and imagine what are the things in life that cause us the greatest pain, the things that bring us grief, or challenges, challenges designed to help us grow to ultimately become what we were always meant to be. We feel like we’ve been buried. But what if like a seed we’ve been planted and having been planted, who grow to become a mighty tree. Now, open your eyes. Open your eyes to this way of viewing life. Come with me as we explore your true infinite, eternal nature. This is grief to growth and I am your host, Brian Smith. Hey there everybody this is Brian Smith back with another episode of grief to growth and today I’ve got with me Tracy crossly and Tracy is a behavior relationship expert. She’s also an author. She’s a podcast host and she specializes in treating individuals with unhealthy life and relationship patterns. She helps clients transform imposter syndrome and secure insecure attachment negative belief systems, breaking a cycle of narcissistic damage, destructive self talk and more. With the background in psychology and innate emotional intuition, which draws from our own personal experience Tracy shows her clients how to permanently change the repetition of unhealthy, unhappy and unfulfilled cycles, personally and professionally. Tracy’s popular weekly mental health podcast is called freedom from attachment. Loving, fulfilled happy and in love, happy and in love offers listeners a different perspective when it comes to breaking the cycle of unhealthy behaviors that get them stuck repeating pain inducing actions on autopilot. The podcast addresses folks who want to deal with their emotional baggage and get unstuck, get happy and have a clear mindset. She also has a monthly podcast called Moving on which he invites guests to speak about their life experience and overcoming difficult times to be successful and to be happy in their lives. So with that, I want to welcome Tracy crossly to grief to growth.

Unknown Speaker 2:42
Thank you for having me on. I look forward to our conversation today.

Brian Smith 2:45
Yeah, I’m glad to have you here. I know that something that we can all relate to being stuck in life, you know, I’m actually taking a little life coaching thing right now a little kind of a brush up. And the guy was talking about how we all have things in our life, we know we’re unhappy, or we’re never quite fulfilled. So it’s nice to have someone that can help us get unstuck from those behaviors. So what’s your approach to that?

Unknown Speaker 3:08
You know, my approach is, as far as working with people, depending on what’s happening in their lives, it always comes back to number one, how we view the world and ourselves in it, right? It’s our perception. And when you start digging deeper into the perception, there’s motivation, most of us are not aware of what motivates us because it’s on autopilot. It’s based on beliefs that we gathered as children, and the patterns that have pulled them. And so my work is really about getting to the deeper beliefs, and what the motivation is to continue to have them in place. Usually, it’s about you know, I would say most of its fear based and that’s because we are, of course trying to survive. And this goes way back to when we live in caves, right, our lizard brain and so I try to work with people emotionally, and somatically in getting to the deeper emotions so that they can break patterns and they can lead a healthy happy life.

Brian Smith 4:05
Wow, wow, that’s good. I like that. So when you say emotionally somatically some people might not understand what does that actually mean?

Unknown Speaker 4:12
So, okay, when it comes to emotions, it’s completely different than psychology. I’m not trying to get you to think differently. I’m getting to what you feel because our feelings do drive our thoughts which drive the stories that we live in, right, which again, fits into the perception of how we see the world. And so when you start working with people at an emotional level, your emotions don’t live in your head. Your emotions live in your body. It’s where you feel them. They have sensations, like actual physical sensations. So we work with going in to break patterns and shift beliefs at that level. It’s not just like you go in one day and boom, you’re done. This is a process because we have a lot of layers of resistance and our resistance is let’s say that something’s happening in your life and you don’t like it You fight against it, or you won’t do it or you avoid it, you’re basically in a state of resistance, you’re not in a state of acceptance of whatever it is that’s happening. And acceptance is not saying, Oh, I’m so happy this is going on. It just means I’m not going to fight against this, I’m going to accept these are the circumstances that are beyond my control. And I’m going to work with what can I control? Well, I can control, you know, what I do, what I say my intentions, and to some degree, my thoughts, once I start to do the deeper inner work.

Brian Smith 5:31
Yeah, I think that’s really important. Because I think as you kind of mentioned, we go through things in life, a lot of times kind of unconscious about these things. And so having someone help us kind of break that down and understand it, I think it’d be beneficial.

Unknown Speaker 5:46
Definitely, because, in my own journey, I had anxiety all the time. And whether I was in a relationship or not, whether I was in a corporate job, or actually should say, when I was in a corporate job, I was probably much more anxious than I was owning my own business. But the point is, there’s a lot of anxiety, there’s a lot of lack of trust of my own choices, always second guessing myself. All these things, you know, being a perfectionist a people pleaser, getting stuck in these dysfunctional relationships, and not just intimate relationships, but other relationships. And I would always find that I was in a state of pain, like I always had this heaviness I was carrying around, and I thought am I going to spend the rest of my life feeling emotionally heavy, I have to do something about this. And therapy for me, only took me so far, you know, it was more I’d walk in, and I just vomit out whatever was happening in my life. And then I’d walk out feeling like nothing had changed, because nothing really had changed. So I didn’t know what I was doing at all, I just knew that I had really cut off from my emotions, and that all I could really feel was the anxiety or, you know, really negative feelings. Like, I just didn’t want to feel that. And I remember saying, I don’t want to feel any emotions. But the truth is, I was so disconnected because of my childhood, my belief system, all of that around it, that I didn’t know how to even connect, and that was sort of like a hit and miss, like you’re going through a maze, and you don’t know where you’re going, because you’ve never been there. And so for me, that helped along with my coach training, you know, and what I had been coat you trained in coaching wise, both of those together really just made a lot of, I would say, made the difference, because I don’t feel anything like I used to.

Brian Smith 7:37
Let’s talk about that a difference what you just said, they’re good. I think it’s really interesting. You said, you talked about being in therapy, that didn’t seem to be really getting you where you wanted to be. So what’s the difference between being in therapy or like going to see a therapist, and what you’re doing with people now,

Unknown Speaker 7:51
you know, so what we do is not therapy. And I always have to Claire, always clarify that because people will go, Well, if it’s deep work isn’t that therapy, but what we do is we really look at what beliefs are driving a person, you know, and I can tell pretty much when I start talking to somebody, and they start telling me a little bit about themselves, what they actually believe about themselves in the world, most people don’t feel like they’re good enough. Most people on some level feel, even if they’re, let’s say, putting out a bravado or they’re putting out some kind of a character that seems to be competent. A lot of times people aren’t necessarily confident in who they are, they may be confident in a skill, you know, they may be confident in their job. But as a person, most of us have, I would say holes in that. And so what happens is, we are not sitting here, you know, in a session, you’re on the couch, and somebody Yeah, and I or somebody I’ve trained is going, okay, so when you were a child, and not that we don’t go back to childhood, but we’re not looking to make it therapeutic. What we’re doing is we’re wanting people to recognize points of that, you know, I would say points of meaning that matter where an incident happened that created a belief. And what we try to do with that is we try to bring different points together, meaning we want emotion, which is feeling to come with action, and awareness, like all at once. Because when you do that in you’re taking like an emotionally risky action, something that is a risk to you emotionally, not necessarily financially or what have you, although those are emotional risks do. And when people do that, you basically can break a pattern, you can basically break down whatever has been there so it’s not therapy, it’s more about going directly into the emotions and working with them by taking action. Most therapy is not action based most therapy has nothing to do with you know, coming up with what is actually going on, you know, usually it’s at the level of early stage. was for me, it was at the level of what’s going on today. What’s happening now? Okay, great. This relates to your childhood, but never was given tools beyond thinking differently to do you know, to do anything. And so, you know, in our work, we really do try to differentiate that because we have people who have shown up who have have mental disorders, right. And, like somebody I worked with had schizophrenia, but she was on medication, we’re not trying to solve her schizophrenia, you know, we’re not trying to solve disorders.

Brian Smith 10:34
Yeah. And that’s, I think that’s a really important distinction. Because I think sometimes people think about, you know, people that are coaches like you and I are and think, Well, this is just like me going to a therapist. And it’s, and it’s really very different. And we typically don’t see people for years and years on end, you know, either we’re there to solve certain things. So you talked earlier about, like, our beliefs, and how that affects us who we are, and the assumptions that we make. So how do you help people can discover what their beliefs are, and how those are holding them back?

Unknown Speaker 11:08
Well, when I start asking somebody, why are you here, they’re going to tell me a story. And I’ve been doing this for 14 years, right? And so as somebody is talking, I can already see what beliefs are at play, I can already see where they have resistance, I can already see, you know how disconnected they are emotionally, I can see how much they’re responsible for themselves. Like, there’s so many little points in a conversation, just by listening to somebody for five minutes. I’m like, okay, so then what we start to do is we start with awareness, because you can’t really take action until you’re ready. Like if somebody comes to me, and they are in a dysfunctional relationship. I don’t ever tell people first of all, what they have to do, because that’s not my job. Secondly, I do not become a proponent of them leaving a relationship as a solution. Because they feel when you’re in a relationship, that is a great place to learn why you’re there in the first place. Because if you never learned why you’re there in the first place, you’re bound to just keep going and repeating the same cycle over and over again.

Brian Smith 12:13
Yeah, yeah. So um, talk to you. You mentioned insecure attachments. What is what is an insecure attachment? How do I identify what that is? And so what is it?

Unknown Speaker 12:24
Well, when we are babies, when we come into the world, we attach we either attach securely, or insecurely. And there was a theory that came about in the late 1960s by Dr. John Bowlby, who was talking about this with babies and seeing how some would securely attach where their needs were met, their emotional needs were met, their physical needs were met, they weren’t acting out to either get attention or to avoid attention, or ambivalent to intense attention. And this was proven out through Mary Ainsworth, who was his assistant. A couple years later, she did something called the strange experiment where those, let’s say styles of attachment were shown. So what that comes down to as an adult is we carry these things forward, because again, the soul gets on autopilot. It’s not that you’re aware, oh, I’m an ambivalent seven year old, nobody’s doing that. You’re not noticing why you’re anxious, you don’t know why you’re anxious, you just think I’m just an anxious person. But the truth is, we develop these patterns, and then we go into our adult relationships, when we’re not securely attached. And we’re looking for either a repeat of our childhood because it’s familiar, meaning, you know, we may on a deeper level, let’s say, desire, emotional intimacy, but if we’ve never had it, we’re afraid of it. And so we perpetuate these same cycles, like if you had a parent, let’s say, You’re anxiously attached. So anxious attachment with the parent would show up as clingy you know, and we call that person needy or this child needy, they would always be meeting something, they would cry when their mom leaves cry, when the mom comes back, that could be inconsolable. And then in a relationship, they don’t trust the other person. They feel they’re going to be abandoned at any moment. They react by holding on tighter, they try to control things, but you really can’t control it. You can’t control other people, but people try. You know, and that would be somebody who’s exhibiting anxious attachment.

Brian Smith 14:24
Okay. Okay. So you help people kind of identify that they’ve got this anxious attachment, and then what’s the what would be the next step?

Unknown Speaker 14:32
So when they identify that it just, you know, to me, I don’t like labels a lot in using insecure attachment is one of those things that it sort of gives people a little education mentally like, Okay, this is what’s happening for me. And, you know, what we start to do is we, we want them to become aware of all the ways that they uphold their attachment. So, when they come in, you know, all of my coaches have been trained this way. It’s really listening and going, Okay, right here, they’re saying something, I can take a deeper dive. And we start to show people things that they weren’t aware of in themselves before, but that they can totally go, Oh my God, you’re right, I totally see it. Right. Great. So that’s the first thing is the awareness. The second part of that is, they got to feel their feelings in their body. Sometimes it can take months to get people in their bodies to feel their feelings when you’ve had trauma. One of the first places you go as to your head, you just stay there, as a kid, if you had any kind of abuse, any sort of trauma that happened, you are probably very strategic in how you live, because you’re always looking for safety. People that are insecurely attached, don’t feel safe in the world. And so they’re not in their bodies, they’re not feeling their feelings, because when you’re a little kid, and you’re having overwhelming feelings, the last thing you want to do is feel those right. So we learn these coping skills where we are outside, we’re always looking out here, what’s happening out here, and whatever’s happening outside of us, is really controlling what’s inside of us. But we’re really designed to be working from the inside to the outside. So we work with people, like I said, awareness to feelings, and then taking action, it depends on the person, some people can do it right away, and we start small, we don’t have people you know, okay, great. You’re in this dysfunctional relationship. Like I said, I don’t go ahead and break up with them. But a lot of times, and this is really a testament to how people get stuck in these patterns. A lot of times, we start with them speaking some kind of a truth in a conversation. And I can have people go months and not want to do that. They’re so afraid of what the other person’s reaction is going to be. And the truth is, if you’re not speaking your truth and honoring your own feelings, nobody else is going to do that. You are showing other people how to treat you, if your emotions, your feelings are unimportant to you, in that way, where you express something, again, without blaming the other person, okay, it’s not a blame fest, it’s taking responsibility and saying something that’s true can feel very scary, because you’re breaking a pattern. And if you’re breaking a pattern, it’s going to be uncomfortable, it’s not going to be comfortable, it’s not going to be like the Tooth Fairy coming and waving their magic wand, you know, it’s really going to be where it feels kind of risky to say what’s true for you. But the more you do it, you build a muscle, and you start to care about your own feelings in a different way. Because now you’re giving attention to yourself, where you probably never had attention. Most of us feel like we haven’t had the attention of being seen at a deeper level. But until you see you at a deeper level, it’s hard for others to see you at a deeper level.

Brian Smith 17:44
Yeah, why do you why do you think that is that we don’t see ourselves at that level?

Unknown Speaker 17:49
We have never Well, number one, unless you’re securely attached. And even people that are securely attached, don’t always see themselves at a deep level. But who’s going to teach you to do that? Not very many parents when they have children are equipped in that way. I mean, I have three grown children, and I look at them. And I think oh my gosh, had I been doing this kind of work when they were younger, you know, could have really helped them. But I wasn’t. And I feel like I did better than my parents. In a sense, I was more aware. But we we don’t have a lot of awareness. I mean, most human beings don’t have the level of awareness, to really have that insight to themselves. They need to have somebody first of all, help them to see it more often than not, and to sustain it. Because you really can’t teach people what you don’t experience yourself in a way that’s going to help them in the long run.

Brian Smith 18:41
Yeah, yeah, that’s I think that’s a really important point. And I think a lot of us feel, you know, I don’t want to feel like there’s something wrong with me that I have to go to a therapist or go to a coach and you know, I should just know this stuff.

Unknown Speaker 18:55
Right? Yep. That’s how I felt for years.

Brian Smith 18:59
Yeah, yeah, I can, I can definitely see that. So you, you muscle mentioned, when I was reading your bio, you mentioned imposter syndrome, which I’ve become, since I’ve been doing this work very, very much aware of. So talk about imposter syndrome and how common or uncommon it is.

Unknown Speaker 19:14
It’s pretty much almost every person has it in some situation, you know, a situation where you don’t feel competent, a situation where you may feel you don’t fit in a situation where you feel like you have to be a better version of who you see yourself to be. So we develop these caricatures. In a sense, that’s what they become. Where, okay, I’m going to do my best here and not that most of us wake up in the morning, I’m not going to do my best today. Most of us even if we’re kind of laying around the house, or we feel a certain way, that’s the best we can do in the moment, but we don’t give ourselves that right. We try to live up to the standards of what we think somebody else wants. And a lot of times we want to live up to the standards so we don’t fall into criticism from somebody else or ourselves. You know, we do these because we think it’s the way to be successful, whether it’s with a person in a relationship, or it’s in a job, or friends, whatever, you know, you might be that friend that does everything for your friends. And yet, nobody’s really close to you. Because when you have imposter syndrome, like I said, you built a caricature, and it’s sort of like you put this false front up, and then you’re behind that, right, you’re back here, you don’t want anybody getting back here, you’re afraid for people to see you as you really are, even though you still desire it at that deep level. So it’s kind of a contradiction. But most of us, that’s what we’re doing, because we haven’t accepted ourselves. We don’t think whatever this is, is good enough. And I need to be this other person.

Brian Smith 20:45
Yeah, it’s almost as if we’re all wearing masks for each other. Right? We’re all Pearl projecting this thing, and we all think we’re the only ones that are feeling the insecurity. And everybody everybody else’s okay, but just not me.

Unknown Speaker 20:57
Right? Yep. And that’s, that’s a real, unfortunate misnomer, because it’s just not true.

Brian Smith 21:04
Yeah, so, um, you you mentioned, I asked, You sent me some questions beforehand. And one of the things you said was, they asked about how to change your life in 90 seconds. So how do we?

Unknown Speaker 21:16
Okay, so and this is a great, you know, my clients are always saying, I did the 92nd thing, I did the 92nd thing, this isn’t the only tool, but it is one of the tools we use, because again, it’s a great one for having awareness. So when you are, let’s say, going out on a date, I’ll just use that as an example. Okay? And you’re sitting there, and you’re not liking this person, you don’t even know number one, why you don’t like them. Number two, you’re wanting to get the hell out of there, like your butt is on fire. And you don’t know why. Okay? And so you’re all you’re doing is thinking about excuses about how you don’t want to be there about how you’re stuck, you know, this is just like you’re ruminating, right? And maybe you’re sitting there smiling, and they don’t have any clue. So what I do is I tell people, you need to stay 90 seconds longer, but you need to actually pay attention to what your motivation is inside of your body to want to bolt. Because when you do that, what starts to happen is you find that a lot of your fears, because that’s fear that’s driving that, by the way, it’s fear that’s making you want to leave, because there’s nothing that’s going to happen, the ceilings not going to fall in, you know, it’s not like the place is going to start on fire. But the feeling you have you’re already in fight or flight. It’s to be curious, why am I wanting to leave not in it can’t be because the other person, they can be a trigger. Okay? But they are not the reason you want to know what’s happening inside of me, what’s being triggered inside of me, that says, I can’t sit here and just be here and find out why I’m so bothered. What is it? Because a lot of this goes back to childhood again, right? So these are the things that go on autopilot. And not that you’re dating when you’re a kid, but you’ve had situations where you’ve wanted to leave because you’re afraid of what’s going to happen. And so what we do is that’s a pattern. And you’ve got to know my pattern is when I’m uncomfortable, I don’t like something I need to leave, well, then you sit there for 90 seconds, and you go, Okay, what am I actually feeling? Oh, wow, I’m not really afraid. I’m just not really engaging with this person. Because I say I want a relationship. And I don’t know that I really want a relationship, like, you may start to uncover on a deeper level, that your motivation is you’re expecting somebody to be perfect when they walk in, and they’re not a perfect person because it doesn’t exist, right? And you immediately have shut down. And so it’s to be curious. And then you could go, why don’t I ask questions, I would never ask, why don’t I see things I would never say, right? So what you start to do is you let yourself out of a prison that you’ve put yourself in, in the past. And so in 90 seconds, you can do that you can become aware of what’s going on with you your motivation, and you can do something different. And I will guarantee you, you will not have the same reaction again on a date, because unless you’re sitting across from a mass murderer or something like that, you know, literally unless there’s some kind of like, okay, this person is really out there. You’re not going to have that reaction anymore. It’s not going to happen. And that’s the best thing in the world is when you can do something like that, because it gives you awareness of what is operating inside of you. Because otherwise we’re just like little robots going through our day. And we don’t know why.

Brian Smith 24:34
Yeah, I think that’s really important. And that’s one of the things I’ve learned since I’ve been doing the life coaching thing, is that really helping people understand these these underlying beliefs, these underlying patterns because most of us do. We operate on autopilot, which is because it’s sufficient, right? It’s just it’s easy to do. And if we tried something and it’s working, we’re not going to change until we actually realized that it’s really not working for us, right?

Unknown Speaker 24:59
Oh yeah. Definitely.

Brian Smith 25:02
So you also meant you talk about how to stop saying yes to breadcrumbs in dating and relationships and work. What is that? What does that mean to stop saying yes to breadcrumbs?

Unknown Speaker 25:14
So when you stop saying yes to breadcrumbs, what you’re basically doing, it’s a couple of things. Number one, this goes back to how you were raised. Okay? So let’s say you’re insecurely attached. And let’s say that you always feel people are going to leave you. So you go on a date. All right, and what happens, oh, my gosh, we’ve hit it off, both of you are like, Oh, my gosh, this is a great date, let’s do this again. And maybe you do, maybe you do a few more times, maybe you do it for a few months. And the other person, all of a sudden starts to call us show up less seems less interested, you could be asking them, hey, what’s going on, because you are sure interested in kind of getting that maybe you’re not if somebody even has the courage to do that, right. So bottom line is this person ends up going away goes to you, in a sense, but then they come back, and you let them come back, because they’ve given you just enough breadcrumbs to keep you holding on to keep you thinking, this is my soulmate, we have such a great first date or a great first month, or whatever it is, and you’re not getting the whole loaf, you’ve gotten little pieces of attention that are breadcrumbs, and you’re making it into more than it actually is. And again, it’s not because there’s something wrong with you, or, you know, you are undeserving, it’s how you feel about you based on, again, how you were raised and how you believe love is given to you. Because a lot of us think we have to work really hard, or there’s something wrong with us. Why would somebody love us? Why would somebody want to give to us, you know, we really don’t dig that deep. But we take whatever someone’s doing out here. And if they’re just giving us little bits, we’re trying to make the best of it. We’re thinking that’s all there is, folks, there’s nobody who’s gonna give me what I want. So I gotta work for it.

Brian Smith 27:02
So you also mentioned that in the workplace, and I could see the same kind of same thing similar when people get into a job situation, and they think this is this is it this is, you know, this is as good as it gets. So what is the way how do we how do we break out of that?

Unknown Speaker 27:17
So, you know, these things that you’re asking today are awesome, because, I mean, I always go back to awareness. And I’m saying they’re awesome, because so much of this, we want to have a quick and easy answer. And it’s not quick and easy. And so you know, when you go in there, first of all, you have to get in reality, okay, so reality is I’m interviewing for a job. Reality is, let’s say I get the job. Reality is I don’t know what the job is going to be like, most of the time, when you interview for something, you’re like, Ah, I’ve got to have this job, I just, I just got to have this job, okay. And it’s gonna fit me it’s perfect. But you don’t know, it’s the same thing we do on dates, you don’t know until you actually are there, and you’re experiencing it. But when you have this fantasy thing going on, you’re in for a world of disappointment, because there’s nothing in the world that is going to be perfect. There’s nothing in the world where you’re going to be writing on a dragon in the sky going, Oh, my God, this is so amazing. It’s the same thing. And so I always say to people, you’ve got to start with reality. And it is very difficult because people don’t like to deal with disappointment. And when you start to actually deal with being disappointed or not having crazy expectations, and really just go in and you’re neutral, and you’re like, I like this, I like that, you know, whatever it is that you like at the job, but to stay realistic with it. Another thing that people do to try and let’s say, I would say except breadcrumbs is they don’t really say what’s true for them, right? Especially at work, we’re afraid we’re gonna get fired, we’re afraid we’re not going to be part of whatever the team is, you know, oh, gosh, there’s so and so she’s always or he’s always speaking their mind, don’t want to hear from them. You know, we’re afraid we’re going to be that person. And then we’re going to lose the job. And you know, there goes the opportunity. And then all we do is dwell on it and ruminate on it for years to come afterwards.

Brian Smith 29:13
Yeah, I can, I can definitely see that. You know, I’ve noticed that pattern kind of in myself back when I was interviewing for jobs. You know, you’re always felt like, oh, it’d be so great just to get the offer even though it might not even be the job you want. I mean, why do you think it is that we have this this almost desperation for you know, for relationships, jobs, you know, whatever it is,

Unknown Speaker 29:33
because, again, it goes back to our lack of value. You know, we never learned your parents could say, Okay, I’m gonna back up a little your parents could say something like, Well, you did a good job on this. Okay. But you are listening right? In all of their actions. Are they telling you that you’re okay? All the time? Not that you’re great. Not that you’re amazing, but that you’re okay. As a kid, you’re reading this you’re a sponge you’re soaking. And for the most part, there is no parent that’s perfect out there, that’s always telling you you’re okay or that their actions support that. So there is always going to be some level of insecurity inside of us about who we are and what is possible, right? A lot of us we feel certain things are impossible. So, you know, you may go into something and you don’t really believe you can have it and oh, my gosh, you get it, then what? And then you feel like you’re going to lose it. Like I remember getting a job like that, you know, where? Oh, my God, I’m going to be a vice president. Oh, boy. And then I was afraid I was going to lose it. How am I going to screw this up? I know, I’m going to screw it up. Right? I go right into that negative thinking? Because that is what is at the base of am I really okay? No, because we have a lack of deserving a lack of feeling like we should have that

Announcer 30:47
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Brian Smith 31:42
Yes, yes. And no, it’s actually as we’re having this conversation, I was watching a television program I think was just last night. It’s called Blackish. It’s a it’s a sitcom. And they were talking about the messages we give our children. And they were they were freaking out about like, we want to give them self esteem. But we don’t want to based on their behavior. Because a lot of things we got when we were kids was like, you’re very attractive, or you’re so smart, or you did a good thing. So we think we have to earn in our way in the world, we don’t think we don’t really learn about inherent value. And I think that’s a real problem in our, in our society. We don’t teach people just because you’re a person you’re deserving of love.

Unknown Speaker 32:21
Right? Right. And that’s the problem, because our parents, they weren’t taught that either. So, you know, and in certain cultures too big time. You know, I mean, I work with people of different cultures. And it’s funny, because different cultures are really the same. People think there’s so much difference, but we’re all more alike than we think. And but it’s it’s interesting, because there’s some cultures, I’ll just, you know, say that they are so success driven. Like, if you don’t become a doctor, you don’t become a lawyer, you know, and you can probably think of like five or six different cultures at this point, right? That there’s something wrong with you. And you are from a small age, I had a client, who was a doctor, who wasn’t even, you know, sure she should be a doctor, right? And she’s like, I’m not a doctor. I’m a disappointment. Both of her brothers were doctors, she had to be a doctor. And it wasn’t, do you want to be a doctor? does that even work for you? Now, it doesn’t matter. And so that’s what happens to a lot of us too. We’re still trying to please our parents, or, you know, the society we live in? Instead of, what is it that works for me, maybe I just want to play the piano, maybe I just want to, you know, be a librarian or whatever. But we don’t give ourselves that because we’re so afraid we’re going to fail. Because failure is a big part of loss. Right? Everything goes back to our fear of loss.

Brian Smith 33:43
Yes, yes. Yeah, I can. I can, I can definitely. And I’ve seen that play out in a lot of different people’s I was when I was a kid, my parents like, Oh, you’re you know, I was I was smart. You know, you’re a smart kid. So you should be a doctor. And I very nearly went into medicine I was, but I was like, No, this is not really what I want to do. But the same thing happened to my daughter. She actually started off in the medical field and then realized after her freshman year, I’m really proud of her, said, you know, no, this is not really what I want to do. But it can be hard to break that pattern when people give us with, we feel like we have to earn people’s approval.

Unknown Speaker 34:21
Right? That’s what I’m saying. Because we don’t give ourselves approval. We don’t know how to do that, because we weren’t instructed how to do that. And, you know, and again, we feel that the validation always comes from outside. So there’s a theory it’s called the self determination theory, which is a theory I absolutely adore because it really breaks down intrinsic and extrinsic motivation. And you’re talking it’s extrinsic motivation whenever you need validation, or it’s more you know, it’s more important to get validation or appear okay to other people, rather than intrinsic motivation, which really speaks to the joy of doing feeling. You’re making autonomous choices. that feed you, and allow you to do things that, you know, really light you up. And so that’s really difficult because we’ll do those as hobbies. But we’re not going to do that as a full time thing or, you know, we’re going to put what we feel is more important to other people or we think is more important to other people first, until we become self, I would say self actualized, where you become self possessed. And I believe in that place, you actually have more to give to others, then when you’re in a place of trying to please others.

Brian Smith 35:36
So as you were saying, I was thinking it was that maybe a definition of what insecure attachment is, is when we’re relying on external things to give us our self worth.

Unknown Speaker 35:48
That’s part of it. I mean, that you know that that’s a part of insecure attachment because what you’re talking about is their outgrowth outgrowths to insecure attachment like perfectionism. It comes from insecure attachment, people pleasing, saying, yes, when you mean no, you know, where you’ll sacrifice yourself comes from insecure attachment, like all of these patterns that are unhealthy, and fear based, do come from there. But at the same time, there’s certain things that are like an outgrowth of it like motivation, okay. Most people, if they’re externally motivated, they have, there’s also a locus of control, you know, where we have an external locus of control, where we feel like the outside, it’s controlling the inside, we’re talking about in condition that is children, people that have an internal locus of control, they feel like this too, shall pass. Everything is really okay. I can handle whatever this is. And they keep moving forward in their lives. And they don’t feel you know, the same kind of feelings. Let’s say that people who are insecure attached or, you know, feel like something’s wrong, their pants are on fire, whatever, you know, there’s a there’s a big difference.

Brian Smith 36:57
Yeah, yeah, I think that makes a lot of sense. So let’s talk about your your book. What, tell me what your books about.

Unknown Speaker 37:04
So my book is so funny. Um, it’s funny, because my publisher changed the title. And so. So it started off as deal with it, we are all ft. Up. Eight ways to happiness, no matter WTF is going on? Okay. Yeah. So anyways, and I say that because it’s not just about insecure attachment, even though it’s named that it’s about the Drama Triangle, it’s about all the ways that we stand in our way and sabotage ourselves. And my goal with writing this was to give people a how to manual, hey, if he can’t work with me, or in one of my programs, you can do this, and you can find your way with it. Because to me, this book was all about taking people from being in their heads, and repeating the same cycles, the same patterns, the same misery the same, you know, I’m stuck to really being able to move out of it with real tools that you can implement and start changing your life immediately. Um, you know, you have to obviously be motivated to do that. And I feel like the book, there’s stories in there that help people like, oh, my gosh, I’ve been, you know, I’ve been in these shoes here, I totally relate to the story. And then hopefully, that helps people because, you know, we always learn from stories, but helps people to be motivated to actually take action.

Brian Smith 38:29
Yeah, you know, I like it. I like your title. I like your original title, because I think it’s really important to normalize this, to normalize the fact that we’re all left up, we’re all, we all have some damage. And I, I’ve come to the conclusion, that’s actually part of the design of being human. I think it’s, I think it’s, you know, kind of one of the reasons why we’re here is to overcome it. But most of us are set or taught, if we, as we talked about earlier, to put on the mask, to buckle up to pull yourself up by your bootstraps. Don’t show anybody, you know, any pain or any vulnerability. And we’re all just kind of suffering through and thinking, well, I’ll be happy when I’ll be happy when this happens, again, that that external circumstance thing, and we’re not even given permission to, to explore our own our and our inner landscape.

Unknown Speaker 39:19
We don’t unless we take the time to do that. And that, again, goes back to what I was saying earlier about how we can work with people and like six months later, they still haven’t taken action. Sometimes people are so locked into these patterns with other people. They’re so afraid of disappointing the other person because they’re so afraid of either criticism, or the person seeing them differently. You know, they’re we’re so afraid of all of that outside of them, that they put themselves in the position of never, ever exploring, never ever taking the time. No, I got to do this. No, I got to do that distracting the heck out of themselves, and not ever paying attention to what really matters to them or getting to know what really matters to them.

Brian Smith 40:01
So do you find people resisting? When you when you’re trying to give them the tools to do things you find people saying, Oh, well, yeah, that’s too risky.

Unknown Speaker 40:10
You know, it’s so funny because sometimes yes, and I, again, I’m not here to force people or to bully people into doing anything. Because why? So I really when we do these things called discovery calls, and I don’t do one on one coaching myself anymore, I have coaches that do. But we really want people when they’re in a discovery Call to learn what we teach, you know, like, this is what it’s going to be like. And this is our expectation that you’re going to show up and do the work. We have people that will disappear. And that’s fine, because they’re not ready to do it. But there are people that show up and they’re really ready to do it.

Brian Smith 40:52
Well, now the thing is, I’m going through I just started in week two of this intensive like seven week thing I’m going through right now with with coaches. And it’s, it’s, it’s uncomfortable, it’s uncomfortable to there’s different terminology, but same things we’re talking about the week, this thing is called the saboteurs, the perfectionism, the avoidance, all these things that are going on inside of us that are kind of kind of holding us back. But when we start to look in and see those things, at first, it’s like, I don’t really want to do this, you know, and then, you know, I had a client that she was a pleaser, she had all these people around here they were, they were literally just driving her crazy. They were always asking her for things. And I said, let’s start small, find one person that you think might accept this, you know, and go to them and say, This is what I need from you, you know, take them out to lunch, or whatever, and just get a little victory and to disappear. I don’t I didn’t see her anymore after that. She just couldn’t do it.

Unknown Speaker 41:53
Yeah, yeah, there’s so many. And that happens in my business will get people, you know, one of the things and I’m telling people, you know, we do not give refunds, why don’t we give refunds, because we don’t want people who come in, and they’re like, Oh, my God, this is so hard, I can’t do this. We want people who are like, you know, what, I want to stick to this, if we give you an out, you will take it because this work is so hard, you know, people want a quick and easy solution, right? But we don’t realize it’s taken decades for us to get where we are. And not that it needs to be decades that you know, it’s going to take you to undo it. But it’s just so wild, that we have an expectation that it should be painless, and the pain comes from within you, the pain is not outside of you. The pain is always there, and you cover it up on a daily basis. And most of us are afraid to let it out. Because we don’t know what’s going to happen if we let that out. But in reality, you let it out and you learn how to deal with your emotions, you are becoming more emotionally intelligent, you are growing yourself and your capacity to handle things. So you become more emotionally mature. But you know, sounds great in theory, but when you’re in the thick of it, and you’re having to do things where you’re like, I don’t know if I can do that. Then like your client that went running off because they wanted to stay a people pleaser. So I find that we try to do it in baby steps we really do. Otherwise people are going to bolt people aren’t going to do it.

Brian Smith 43:23
Do you find that people have to hit some sort of a bottom before they come to you before they’re willing to do this work? What’s your, what’s your experience with that?

Unknown Speaker 43:34
You know, yes and no, because I feel like most people. Okay, so and I you know, it’s funny, because I’ve been studying this for the 14 years I’ve been doing it right. So most people, if you would ask me five years ago, yes, they have to be going through some major thing. For some people, it’s really that they’ve hit this place of I am doing the same thing. Again, I don’t want to do the same thing again, I cannot do the same thing again. I need to just stop and I need to do something, right. Like somebody wrote to me yesterday. Now. I get letters all the time. And this person was saying, I realize I’m anxiously attached. And my attachment issues are creating problems in my relationship. And I also have two young children. And I’m afraid that I’m going to pass this on to them. So then we reach out to her, but we haven’t heard back, and we probably won’t. Right. And and that happens a lot. But for people who recognize that and actually join a program good for you. It’s not that everything had to fall apart for you to do it. So that’s what I’m saying. Like I used to think no, they gotta be going through a breakup, but but sometimes people will join who are going through a breakup, and they’re not necessarily ready to change anything either. Right? Even though you would think so. And

Brian Smith 44:54
when I said a bottom, I don’t mean again, not even next. Never say externally. It’s not like that. could be a divorce or death or something like that. It’s that I think we’re at a point in ourselves, and we’re just saying, this is the I’m not happy. I just can’t keep doing it. You know, I’m going to take the red pill, now I’m going to, I’m going to open my eyes and figure out what’s really going on. Because human beings, I think, are wired to ask if something’s working, we’re just gonna keep doing it. Yeah, realize this is not working. And then but sometimes that that bottom that, I think just be like, like you said, I just can’t do this anymore. You know, I’m tired of this, the same old pattern, but people have to know. And that’s why it’s important that people like yourself, with your book and your program, know that there is an opportunity, there’s a way to get out of it. So that’s, that’s awesome about what you’re doing with that.

Unknown Speaker 45:43
Thank you. Thank you. I, you know, I feel like I’ve always wanted to help people in terms of, you know, when I was younger, and I was in school, I was always like, Dear Abby. And so I was always helping people. But I used to help people to my detriment. And I feel like at this point, I don’t help from my from a detrimental place, because I’m always filling my own gas tank. And that is the difference like your client who’s people pleaser, like once that person learns what real generosity is and how to actually give to themselves first, so that they have gas in their tank. It changes your whole relationship with the world, because then you don’t feel like you’re sacrificing all the time and you don’t feel drained and exhausted and miserable and mad. And you know, resentful. You feel good. Yeah.

Brian Smith 46:29
Let’s, let’s talk about that balance. I think that’s really important for people who are people pleasers, because we feel like okay, well, it’s good to be a people pleaser, it’s good to, to want to make people happy. It’s good to want to serve other people. What’s, what’s wrong with doing that?

Unknown Speaker 46:45
Well, it’s all what your motivation is, you know, if your motivation, we’re just gonna, you know, pull this one in, because this is one of my favorite things. When people say this, to me, it’s, it’s like, okay, so your motivation is what I want people to like me, I don’t want people to leave me. You’re manipulating. Okay? That is so different people pleasing is manipulation. If I want to give to somebody, and I want to do something nice for them. There are no strings attached. I don’t worry about you thanking me, I don’t worry about what you’re going to do with it. I feel good in the action. That’s called intrinsic motivation. And that’s called generosity that you want to come from. But you can’t when you’re draining yourself by being a people pleaser, which comes from fear. It does not come from love, love and generosity go together. Fear, manipulation, people pleasing, that’s all together. So there’s a huge gap between them. And I always tell people that and then they see themselves and like, Oh, you’re right, you know, and I’m trying to get somebody to think I’m a good person, or I want them to love me, or I want them to do these things. And I’ve done I used to do this stuff all the time. So I’m really aware of it. And you know, of course, that makes it rare when people come walking in, like, oh, yeah, I used to do that. Yeah.

Brian Smith 48:04
Yeah, I think a lot of us in this field probably have been people pleasers. And we and we learn how to do it from a different place. But you know, you can see it still coming back sometimes, right? We keep putting ourselves out. And we want, we all want people to like us. I mean, that’s, that’s a normal thing. I was talking with a client the other day about, you know, being a people pleaser. And I said, Well, we don’t want to become sociopaths, either. We don’t want to become to the point where people we don’t care what people think. And we don’t, you know, we don’t we’re not trying to, you know, make other people happy. There’s got to be there’s got to be a balance. So sometimes people can go too far to the other extreme. And I’ve heard people say, well, I shouldn’t care what she thinks about me, you know, I should be I should be totally intrinsically motivated, and not care what people think about me. I don’t know how you feel about that.

Unknown Speaker 48:47
I actually feel good about that. And I’ll tell you why. Because that’s one way of looking at it. So let’s say that I am all about my intrinsic motivation. So I’m a happy person, right? Because I’m taking care of myself. Yeah, it’s so much easier for me to relate to other people without feeling the pressure to have to be somebody that they want me to be or, or better yet, I think that they want me to be because I don’t even know that they want me to be that person. Right? You asked somebody, they’d be like, of course, I want you to do what you love. I of course, I want you to be happy. Of course, you know, we all want that. Right? But we soom in our heads the stories that we have to care what other people think you don’t and it’s not in a sociopathic way, either. Right? You know, it’s it’s not it’s making choices that feel good to you. I mean, people are really going to love being around you, because you’re probably gonna be very honest with them, you’re going to be very open with them, you’re going to be very loving with them. You that’s a totally different thing than let me try and please somebody when I really don’t know how to please them, but I think I do. And you know, and I am afraid to ask and I’m afraid to do anything differently. Yeah, we’re

Brian Smith 49:58
giving them what we think they want and then when they don’t react the way that we expect them to, then then we’re upset. You know, we’re upset with them because they’re selfish people, why aren’t they giving stuff to me? Like I’m giving stuff to them?

Unknown Speaker 50:11
Right, right. And so I mean, it’s just kind of funny. I had a client, who’s actually one of my coaches now, who used to run errands for all her friends. And one of them in particular, I remember her telling me that she was driving 30 miles out of her way to go and pick up a pair of pants for her friend. And I’m like, and do you enjoy doing this? Did you have other things planned? And she’s like, Yeah, but it’s hard because this person expects me to do it, because I’ve done things like this before, right? And it’s to say to somebody, hey, guess what, I realized by me picking up your pants for you, that I am actually resentful, and that people forget, right? So I may look like I’m pleasing you. And you may think I’m pleasing you, but secretly, I’m hating you are secretly a mad at you. And what is that? That’s not emotional intimacy. That’s not true. That’s not a real bond. That’s a bunch of BS. And that’s where you know, and she stopped doing it. And she no longer was friends with that person, not because of it being where my client was like, Okay, I can’t be friends with you. It just happened. Because they had nothing in common.

Brian Smith 51:18
Yeah, yeah. Sometimes that those relationships, the person might be actually manipulating you unknowingly, because you’re willing to do everything for them. And when you cut that off, you might lose some relationships, which are not real relationships anyway. And, you know, as coaches and this goes back, I guess maybe we were talking about earlier about the imposter syndrome. We’re not perfect. I’m not a perfect person. So I just yesterday, I have a relationship with someone that we’ve been friends with for a long for a long time. And I realized, I never really tell this person how I feel about certain things. So I just finally said, Okay, this is how I feel about this particular thing. And I’m not doing this thing with you tomorrow that you asked me to do. And it felt good. No, it felt good. And I don’t know how that person is going to react to that. But I just knew it’s something I had to do as part of my truth. So we were all works in progress. We’re all you know, recognizing these things as we go along. And and it feels good. When you finally you know, do let your real self come out the people.

Unknown Speaker 52:17
I totally agree. I mean, it’s funny, because years ago, people would say, oh, Tracy, you always say, you know, you’re always saying and how it is right? Well, yeah, as long as it didn’t have anything to do with me. I didn’t say anything that, you know, was real. When it had to do with me that made me vulnerable. But I had to become vulnerable. I had to become very real.

Brian Smith 52:39
Yeah, that’s, that’s part of being you know, a real person. And then that’s, and then you know, people love you for who you are not who you’re pretending to be.

Unknown Speaker 52:49
Exactly. And that, to me is a greater gift. Some people may not be able to handle that. And that’s okay. Because what would you do? Like, once you start doing this, you start to realize, what would I be doing? Well, I’d be trying to please them, and I’d be miserable. And I can only control what I do. Right? So why would I make myself miserable, to make someone else happy and like me, but they’re not even really liking the real me? I don’t, you know, there’s a huge break right there. Because some people they’re so afraid to have people not really like them. Yeah. And they may not like you anyway.

Brian Smith 53:25
Right? Right. Exactly. Yeah. We can’t ever guarantee that anybody’s gonna like us. And and when people and I’ve seen this also, when people realize that you’re not real, they might kind of pretend to like you, or they might but they don’t really feel intimately attached to you. They don’t feel like we can, we can spot the pleasers, right, we can spot the people that don’t tell us the truth. And the people that are always, you know, happy and sunshine and all that stuff. And we don’t typically attracted those people.

Unknown Speaker 53:55
Not typically. Yeah,

Brian Smith 53:57
yeah. So tell me about your your podcasts. I know you have to. So tell me about each one of

Unknown Speaker 54:02
them. So I have. My first one is called freedom from attachment. And so with freedom from attachment, I’m basically talking about all the things we’re talking about today. And you know, I go on for about 1520 minutes. I’ve been doing it for six years, and I have over 600 episodes below. Yeah, there are people that have listened to all of them. Congratulations, you know, but there are a lot of episodes about these topics. I’m always looking at, you know, the difference between love and fear, because fear makes us attached love does not make us attached. And so it’s all sorts of things. I mean, I even talk about a little bit about you know, being on the job, things like that, but it’s really about freedom from any kind of attachment, which means you’re being in love. And then my other podcast Moving on is where I have people come on experts or people that had been through some kind of trauma or drama, to get to where They are sort of like what your podcast is about, you know, where people have gone through something that has significantly changed their lives. And then how did that play out? What was it that happened? And then how is that affecting you at this point, because a lot of my listeners had been through a lot of trauma and trauma. And so they’re always looking at, you know, wow, you were able to do that. Well, maybe I can do that, too.

Brian Smith 55:24
Mm hmm. Yeah, I think it’s, I think it’s really important because it goes back to that belief thing that you talked about the very beginning. And I believe that’s the core of everything. It’s what are the stories we tell ourselves? What are our beliefs? And that’s why I asked you about the rock bottom thing, because a lot of times it’s the, it’s the trauma that gets us to the point where realize our belief systems not working anymore. You know, I thought this was the way it was going to be. I thought this is the way things are. If I did x, y, and z, then everything would be okay. Well, I did x y&z and things aren’t okay. So what happened was the disconnect between my belief system and the way the world really works?

Unknown Speaker 56:02
Yeah, because most of us are, I’m gonna say this, most of us are brought up with a lot of fearful beliefs. And we’re not really brought up with a lot of loving beliefs. And if we actually came from love, the whole world would look different.

Brian Smith 56:17
Yeah, I could, I’d say it all the time. So I’m glad. I’m glad that you did say it. I think I think the beliefs we have is what what molds our world it’s what we what we believe about ourselves, and we believe about other people. Um, my my big thing I say all the time is the biggest problem in the world is We’ve all forgotten who we are. Nobody knows who we wrote, we don’t we don’t understand our intrinsic value. We don’t understand everybody has intrinsic value. We don’t respect that in ourselves. We don’t respect it and other people. And we live in a culture that tells us that you have to earn everything, including love and approval.

Unknown Speaker 56:52
That is so true. It is perpetuated outside of the home, inside of the home. And you know, it’s even perpetuated in movies, TV, it’s perpetuated everywhere.

Brian Smith 57:02
Yeah, so it’s, it’s important to have people like yourself, helping people to break these patterns and and to recognize these patterns. So you mentioned that you don’t do one on one coaching anymore. But you have people that do that you have coaches, so tell me how your your business model works? Do people come to your website and sign up for coaching? How does that work?

Unknown Speaker 57:21
So usually people will come to the website, they’ll start listening to my podcast, and then we’ll usually hear from them we do a couple of different things. One is I have the short term programs. In fact, I have one that starts today, actually, right after we’re done here. And you know, we we do like two to three week programs, those are sort of starter, get your feet wet, kind of you know, learn a little bit about what we do. But our main program is called Mastery, it’s 12 months. And usually people who are really ready to make a change do it. Because like I said, it can take a while to be able to get into your body, which is a completely different way of feeling your well being like you feel completely different. Like oh my god, I can’t believe I’ve not been living this way, right. So we do this over 12 months, we have 12 different topics that we cover. And we really work, you know, my coaches work in the program. And that is to me like the gold standard, in terms of what I would suggest people doing. Some people don’t want to be in a group. And so my coaches do offer one on one sessions. For that I also have a digital course. And my book, whoops, and my book too.

Brian Smith 58:33
So I want everybody to know, all your your website. We talked about your book, I want to make sure the name is prominent. We’ll put this in the show notes. But sometimes people don’t look at the show notes like to have it in the audio also.

Unknown Speaker 58:46
Awesome. So you can find me at Tracy And all of my social media links are also listed there. They’re different. They’re not just Tracy l crossly, there’s Tracy all across the 13. So anyways, just click on the little logo there. And then as far as my book, it’s at all booksellers that I’m aware of like, Walmart, Target, obviously Amazon Barnes, noble, you name it, you can find the book anywhere.

Brian Smith 59:12
Okay, and the book is overcoming insecure attachment. Yeah, so here it is. Yeah. And it’s crossly. CRO SS l EY. So I want to let people know that so they can find you. So Tracy, um, what last thing would you like to say to people as we as we wrap up today,

Unknown Speaker 59:29
it’s okay. That you feel however you feel. And what I mean by that is a lot of us are trying to not feel how we feel and to let yourself just feel how you feel is okay. And don’t worry that you’re going to be stuck there. Because you’re not because the point is, and I didn’t mention this earlier, but it’s really important to know that the stories in your head or just stories, and once you actually start questioning the stories, your feelings are much more manageable and that therefore it makes it easier just to say I’m okay however I feel

Brian Smith 1:00:00
Yeah, thank you. I think that was a great way to wrap up. Tracy. It’s been wonderful meeting you. Thanks for being here today. And have a great rest of your day.

Unknown Speaker 1:00:10
Thank you so much for having me. I’ve really enjoyed being here.

Brian Smith 1:00:15
Don’t forget to like, hit that big red subscribe button and click the notify Bell. Thanks for being here.

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